wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
Who else but the Watch Tower Society could say they’ve ‘always’ been consistent about something for the period that they’ve said that thing. Amazing! 🤦♂️ But in that time they’ve changed their interpretation of verses 17-19 (which they now concede to also relate to the Seleucid period), 25-26 and 40-45.
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Unlike your static worldview, our worldview is dynamic and consistent with the progression of true knowledge.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
He more than likely did (his repetitive retorts are like white noise after a while). But he also made an ad hominem attack against Porphyry (3rd century CE), dismissing him as a ‘critic of Christians’ as if that has any bearing on whatever he might otherwise say about the actual subject matter. Worse still, ‘scholar’ insists that my position is based on the views of Porphyry, who I have actually never referenced, mentioned, or even considered regarding Daniel or anything related to JW beliefs. That is to say, ‘scholar’ was initially ignorant at best the first time he made the claim about my position, and a bald faced liar after the first time I told him I didn’t reference Porphyry.
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False, Porphyry was the first person to introduce the idea that Daniel was not a work of the 6th century but was written much later in the time of the Seleucids in the 2nd century thus making Daniel not a prophet but simply a historian so in the context of this debate it is prudent to know where ideas originate and that is why I brought the matter of Porphyry to the table.
Your views originate with sloppy scholarship traced back to the late 19th century with the beginning of 'higher criticism' of the Bible so the mention of Porphyry is simply a footnote to history.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
🤦♂️ I’m done with your idiocy for now
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Are things getting a little hot for you!!!
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
Haha. My position, arrived at independently, is consistent with the world’s best experts on the subject. ‘scholar’ on the other hand simply parrots the view of a minor denomination with obviously superstitious beliefs. Hardly a draw.
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Your opinion is not independent at all as you provide no details but simply pander to discredited scholarship based on an old theory traced back to the 3rd century CE.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
nd as usual we’ve gotten to the point where he can only resort to parroting JW dogma and making trivial jibes
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The only point that you have reached is that you cannot provide any evidence for your opinion for at least so-called JW dogma sets out a commentary that covers the entire book unlike your fluffy opinion lacking any commentary.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
It’s funny how the threshold for evidence that JWs (and many other religious people) expect from others is a lot higher than for the ‘evidence’ they accept for their own dogmatic superstitions. 🤣
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Am I hearing a plea for ignorance? That you have nothing to say and you talk about a threshold when even in your case you do not even have that for even celebrated WTscholars have a threshold.
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Note also how the apologist attempts to minimise the mainstream scholarly position that Daniel was written in the second century BCE as merely ‘my belief’.
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Not how you refuse to defend your own opinion but simply rely on other scholars to do that for you just as you have done with the nonsense on your website.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
Hahahaha. No. Everything in Daniel 11 and12 can be readily associated with events up until the Seleucid period (apart from the exaggerated claims about a hypothetical future that aren’t real at all). It has nothing at all to do with “our day”. Good luck proving otherwise. 😂
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Hahaha. No. Only a portion of Dan 11 pertains to the Seleucids the rest of Daniel had a fulfilment in his day right through to the present as proved in -Dan1-11:4 -Dan11 11:20-12:13. Good luck and I wish you every success as you vainly attempt to prove otherwise.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
This is some of the most plainly stupid reasoning you could utter. I could write something right now that makes reference to past events and no current events, and by your reasoning, it would have to be concluded that it was written at the time of the events mentioned.
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This is the case because Daniel contains chronological data which fixes the time of composition as shown by the 6 references.
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Jeffro
You already answered your own question. 😂 “Daniel [refers] to the Seleucids … with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19”
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Nice try but such reasoning does not get you off the hook for Dan. 11 refers to future events involving a future battle between two kings- north and south which in verses 5-19 applies to the Seleucid period. The rest of Daniel refers to historical events in the 6th century continuing right up to our day.
The challenge for you is show evidence that all of Daniel, the entire 12 chapters refers or was written in the 2nd century.
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Also, the page you reference acknowledges that some parts of Daniel include elements from older folktales.
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Opinion, not fact!
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Whilst all the chapters of Daniel allude to the Syrian oppression under Antiochus IV Epiphanes with Babylon used as an allegory, chapters 2 and 7 to 12 make obvious references to rulers up to the Seleucid period.
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Prove it!
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The sad fact is that you actually agree that there are references to the Seleucid period (and, erroneously, beyond) throughout Daniel, but your ‘explanation’ is that Daniel was magical.
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WT publications since 1958 have always maintained that a small section of Daniel namely ch.11 describes the Seleucid Period as history by means of prophecy.
Your opinion and interpretation' is 'magical' or illusional
scholar JW
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
ozziepost
Very good morning to you!
scholar JW
