Posts by scholar

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

That passage includes an expression of frustration about a period that had not yet ended, and very obviously doesn’t refer to a period that ended decades earlier. You’re really not very good at this.

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Nope. This verse is a historic reflection on the 70-year Exile already completed or fulfilled in 537 BCE. The wording reflects a past tense and the Study note in the NIV Study Bible associates this 70-year period with the 70 years of Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezra. I humbly recommend that you do more research on this subject. Please!

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

My statements are backed by facts and agreement from the entire body of experts in all relevant fields. You continue to spout drivel. The fact that you think you’re still right says everything it needs to.

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Your past history of posts on the subject of Chronology proves that you do not read widely nor do you consult with others merely reflecting or copying the false views of other naughty poztates.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Wrong. Zechariah doesn't refer to 70 years of exile at all, nor to Babylon's 70 years. Zechariah (7:1-7) refers to annual fasts in the 5th and 7th months, which by the 9th month of Darius' 4th year (518 BCE) had been held for 70 years. This places the first year of those fasts in 587 BCE when Jerusalem was destroyed.

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Wrong. Zechariah made two references to Jeremiah's 70 years- the period of Exile. The first reference is Zech 1:12 by means of an oracle on the 24th day,11th month in King Darius 2nd year- 519 BCE. The second reference is in Zech 7:5 by means of an oracle on the 4th day, of the 9th month in King Darius' 4th year-518 BCE.

These two references point back to the now completed or fulfilled Exilic period of 70 years wherein the Jews were engaped in improper fasting now being chastised by the prophet's oracle. Thus, Zechariah's two references to the 'seventy years' proves that the 70 years began in 607 BCE and ended in 537 BCE

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The Jews arrived in Jerusalem in 538 BCE rather than 537 so you're wrong there anyway, but that was only after Babylon was called to account in 539 BCE when the 70 years actually ended (Jeremiah 25:12). 539+70=609, which is the year that Babylon destroyed Assyria's final capital at Harran (compare Ezekiel 27:2, 23; Isaiah 23:13-15).

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False. The Jewish Exiles returened home in 537 BCE and not 538 BCE as this latter year is impossible as the time frame is too short to accommodate the many events that began in the first year of Cyrus. which marked the end of the 70 years fulfilling Jeremiah's prophecy at Jer 25:12.Your date 609 BCE for the beginning of the 70 years rather than 607 BCE is too fuzzy and is historically unreliable. Even Carl Jonsson considered 605 BCE rather than 609 BCE as equally possible so you have a big problem here.

You can go now with scholar's permission.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

😂

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

The Chaldeans, following standard Mesopotamian practice, deported the Jews after they had conquered Jerusalem in 597 BC. The deportations were large, but certainly didn't involve the entire nation. Somewhere around 10,000 people were forced to relocate to the city of Babylon, the capital of the Chaldean empire. In 586 BC, Judah itself ceased to be an independent kingdom, and the earlier deportees found themselves without a homeland, without a state, and without a nation. This period, which actually begins in 597 but is traditionally dated at 586, is called the Exile in Jewish history; it ends with an accident in 538 when the Persians overthrow the Chaldeans.

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Trying to imply that Jewish scholars support a 70 year exile is such an obvious lie. 🤦‍♂️ Jewish Virtual Library:

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You need to check your comprehension for the above-cited reference refers to the Exile representing the Babylonian Exile which of course is that same 70 year period.

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(Note that Jewish tradition places the destruction in 586 BCE, however, 587 BCE is the correct year. See 586 or 587?)

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Most scholars favour 586 most notable was Edwin Thiele so yoy have a big problem here with 587 so methinks 607 is a better candidate as it is based on the 70 year Jewish Exile.

scholar JW

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349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Red herring. It is uncontested that there was an exile (the most significant one in early 597bce followed by the one at the time of Jerusalem’s destruction in 587bce).

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Hardly a red herring. The subject of the Jewish Exile is uncontested by scholars especiallt Jewish scholars but remains unknown amongst WT critics and Carl Jonsson who makes no or little mention of this most vital historical period of 70 Years.

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That is not at all the prevailing view, including among Jewish scholars. It is a theological assertion only, and one that is not supported by what the Bible actually says.

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Indeed it is for there is no other exilic period in jewish history than that pertaining to the Babylonian Exile of 70 years period./ Just do some further reading and rersearch.

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irrelevant ad hominem.

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This is just reflects your pitiful ignorance- hiding from the facts .

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Liar. Neither Jonsson nor anyone else says there ‘was no exile’. All relevant sources acknowledge the main exile in early 597bce and the later deportation in 587bce.

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Prove me wrong. Show me where in his book where he discusses the subject of the Jewish Exile for it is not even discussed as a heading in his Subject Index where it should occur.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Beth Sarim

The Bible never mentions a 70 year exile.''

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Just read the OT and any decent reference work to prove that there was indeed a Jewish exile of 70 years duration during which period the Jews were deported and lived in Babylon.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

This is the level of ‘rigour’ I’ve come to expect from ‘scholar’. A good old ‘bait and switch’. The fact that the Jews were exiled at all is uncontested, and you are an academically dishonest fool for trying to conflate the fact that it happened with an unsupported duration. 🤦‍♂️ The Bible never mentions a 70 year exile.

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Absolute nonsense. Scholars do accept the reality of the Jewish Exile which is usually believed to be that biblical period of 70 years but there are others and in particular, Carl Jonsson and others of his ilk, who in his thesis omits any mention or reference to that Exile which absence demolishes his thesis. The academic rigour of which Jeffro knows nought demands the recognition of the Jewish Exile in compiling a history of the Late Judean period and any scheme of chronology related to that period.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Wrong. 'scholar' attempts to reduce the evidence to merely 'Jonsson's thesis', but all of the scholarly consensus and my own independent analysis agrees with the very well established history of the Neo-Babylonian period.

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Wrong, it is Jonsson's thesis but it is a thesis that has ensnared current biblical scholarship originating with SDA'scholars/clergy in Australia from the early fifties. The so-called 'well-established history of the NP Period is bunkum as it fails to account for Neb's subjugation of Judah during his reign of over 40 years, the Jewish Exile, and Neb's seven-year vacancy from his throne. Big problems with NB history and its chronology.

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Wrong. The Bible doesn't even mention 70 years of exile.

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Nope. The Bible describes in detail by means of history and prophecy of the Jewish Exile which the major Exilic scholar -Rainer Albertz describes it as' catastrophic'. Further, Lamentations in the OT describes it also in great detail.

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Wrong. The 70 years ended in 539 BCE when Babylon was conquered by Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:20), and the Jews who returned to build the temple foundations arrived there in 538 BCE

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False. The 70 years could only have ended in 537 BCE with the Return of the Exiles for in 539 BCE the Jews were still captive to Babylon and were in Babylon. Plain and simple. The end of the 70 years is confirmed by Cyrus as ending by means of the his Decree and not the fall of Babylon as in 2 Chronicles 36, Ezra 1.

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Dealing with jeffro is like shooting ducks in a pond. Boom1 Boom1 Boom!

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jefffro

Dismissively referring to ‘pretty charts’ because he can’t actually identify specific errors. 🤦‍♂️ Not that I think it’s not possible there are errors, but all JW nutters can point to is their nutty dogma and not what the Bible actually says.

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Your 'pretty coloured' charts are falsified by the 'seventy years' of Jeremiah based solely on your interpretation of that period of important Biblical history- Jewish Exile. Plain and simple! Nothing else needs to be said.

scholar JW