if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
We know that the return trip took 4 months. So both trips must have taken more than 4 months, therefore 4 months is not possible for the round trip as you suggested as a possibility. I tried to be very conservative and suggested 6 months round trip but it's very likely it took longer than 6 months.
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Whatever!!!
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
To do so would be a fallacy of composition, and I have no need for resorting to such tactics. Unlike you, I consider all the relevant texts, their context, and what they actually say. You (parroting the Watch Tower Society), on the other hand, ignore inconvenient verses, read into texts what is not there, and completely distort the order of events.
The facts surrounding the composition of the book of Daniel are very well known, and the JW (Adventist) tradition is simply wrong.
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The issue is not the date of the composition of Daniel as to whether it was in the 2nd or 6th century BC but whether Neb had the tree dream and experienced 7 years of banishment as recorded in Dan.4.
Unlike you, I do extensive research in leading academic journals and Bible commentaries and compare such material with our WT publications.
If you accept the fact of the 70 years described in Zechariah 1 by means of several visions then why would you not accept the historicity of Dan. 4 or is it the case you 'pick and choose' and you call this scholarship?
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
I agree that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was more likely to be 4 months. Since we are talking about desolation of Judah, we can easily assume that the trip back and forth between Judah and Babylon was at least 6 months, Do you agree with this?
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Frankly, I don't know because the time of the journey and its route is discussed in the Bible. so 6 months or 4 months are both possible. However, supporters of 538 BCE for the Return such as Jeffro, vale Alan F- May he rest in peace, Jonsson and others must have envisaged a 'Babylonian Highway (B1) from Babylon to Jerusalem complete with a mass transportation system such as rail, road or plane to make the return in such an impossible timeframe.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jefffro
The one with the pretty charts.
This goes back to one of the questions already asked in this thread that ‘scholar’ won’t (can’t) answer. If 70 years ended when the Jews arrived in Jerusalem, in what way was attention subsequently given to their return?
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I will and can answer this question. I suspect that this is the direction that Bruce X is going so will leave it to him.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
Would you agree that it's reasonable to assume that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was at least 2 months?
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The historical account does not say how long the trek took but 4 months would be most likely.
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And that they left the city of Jerusalem in the month of Tishri in 607, which would be around September–October in 607 BCE?
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In order to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy and later confirmed by Ezra, the land had to be vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE which began the 70 years of Exile- Servitude and Desolation.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
“Must have occurred” … “it is most likely” … so I’m marking that as a fail because it is just speculation with no evidence and you didn’t specify a period of 7 years. Additionally, placement of this seven years inside the supposed ‘greater fulfilment’ Is contrary to the alleged significance of the latter.
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The historical details pertaining to the tree vision and the precise timing of the seven times or years pertaining to Neb are not given in the narrative so don't blame me but sort it out with One who gave the dream in the first place for it is not my problem.I have answered your question and I do not expect you to agree with my answer.
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Of course not. The tale borrows elements from a story about Nabonidus, and there is no evidence whatsoever that any such event occurred. Desperate to find support, apologists occasionally cite an obscure claim that Nebuchadnezzar ‘made strange decrees’ as ‘evidence’, but this bears no similarity to him going off to live in the wild. Honest readers can read further at Seven Times and The Watch Tower Society’s 2014 attempt to defend 1914.
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I knew that so if that is the case then everything to do with Bible Chronology or Bible History can be discarded simply on the basis that you can pick and choose what facts or other information to accept or recognize . You may as well say that the whole concept of the 70 years is a myth and has nothing to do with Chronology or Jewish History just as you easily brush aside or ignore the Exile.
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You bore me. Your non-answers are predictable and I see no point in expending further effort. I already posted links to previous questions and you couldn’t be bothered following those. There is nothing to learn from you on this subject and the only point of sending you questions you can’t answer is to watch you flounder. The worst part is that you imagine your non-answers are valid responses, so in the end you learn nothing. It is of some benefit to onlookers though so maybe another time.
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You also bore me with your stupidity, lack of scholarship and plain common sense. I have answered your question and now you complain like a girl. As one actor said: "Stop being a girlie man".
Until next time!
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
Bonus question: during what specific range of years were Nebuchadnezzar's alleged 7 years of madness? Hint: it can't be during any period where there are actions attributed to Nebuchadnezzar.
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Nebuchadnezzer's madness and absence from the throne must have occurred sometime shortly after his 18th year 607 BCE and the beginning of the reign of his eldest son, Evil-Merodach in 580 BCE. Thus, I propose that it occurred during Nebs' 19th-32nd years of his reign which would be 606 BCE -593 BCE. it was during this period according to Josephus that Neb. besieged Tyre and it is most likely that Neb's son Evil 0Merodach or Amel -Marduk reigned in his place during Neb's vacancy..
Now I have a question: Do you accept the historicity of Neb's tree dream described in detail in Dan. 4 including Neb's banishment from his throne for 'seven times' or seven years?
Now, please forward your next question and do not bother me with access to older posts. Just pose the question.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
aha. There’s a whole slew of threads with questions you have not answered.
Mighty? What a joke.
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Let's be fair dinkum. You list these so-called unanswered questions and I will answer them. Put your foot where your mouth is. Accept this challenge.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
And yet you still have no answers, only trite nonsense in response
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Do not worry or be anxious for the mighty scholar will answer all questions very soon.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
BruceX
How long was the trip back from Babylon to Jerusalem? The Bible is quite clear on this and WT says it was 4 months. Do you agree with this?
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I can see where this is going because scholar is no fool and has dealt with all of these questions before. The trip back took at least 4 months. So what? You are not trying to entrap the mighty scholar are you?
scholar JW
