scholar

Joined

• started 4 topics
• posted 3,055 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by scholar

• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Entirely wrong. Based on the secularly agreed facts of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign along with what the Bible says, 587 BCE is the correct year. But JWs don’t really care what the Bible actually says. 607BCE has no support from any reputable source at all.

  ----

  Entirely wrong. Your methodology as used on your website discussing 587 vs 586 BCE uses a methodology that is complex and simply a contrivance in order to prove the unprovable.I am sure that serious scholars who advocate 586 BCe are well aware of the contrary arguments against 586 but it still, remains the strongest candidate within current scholarship.

  The dates 586 or 587 are falsified by the fact of the Jewish Exile which was of 70 years duration ending in Cyrus' 1 st year in 537 BCE and beginning in the 18th year of Neb and the 11th year of Zedekiah which brings the simple fact that the Exile could only have begun in 607 BCE with the Fall of Jerusalem.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  indoubtbigtime

  If they ditch 1914, they'll have to ditch the Gentile Times prophecy, and the Last Days in general, but JWs without eschatology have no reason to exist. An alternative would be to just move End of Gentile Times to another date. They could for example accept the historical consensus about the fall of Jerusalem in 587 BC; that would give them 20 years of breathing time, and pass the hot potato to the next generation of GB; this sounds cynical enough for the GB to adopt. The problem, though, would be that every WT magazine has constantly fired against the historical date of 587 BC in favor of their baseless 607 BC. Changing that would be a huge flip-flop, but it wouldn't be news.

  --

  What you fail to realize is that the modern-day Church is an Eschatological Church or Organization as described in detail in the book of Revelation. Thus, such teachings or doctrines such as the Gentile Times, Last days, Parousia, Kingdom are all part of modern Biblical Theology fully developed by Jehovah's people since the days of the Early Bible Students.,

  Then is no historical consensus for 587 BCE as the date for Jerusalem's Fall as most reputable scholars prefer 586 BCE thus 587 BCE is not the historical date but 607 BCE is the only validated date for the destruction of Jerusalem based on the historic Jewish Exile of 70 years.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  TD

  Well yes, that is the point. You're ahead of scholar at least. They were not members of the great crowd. They were not even prospective members of the great crowd as JW's have taught since 1970. Do I have to show you how JW teachings on the Ransom and how it applies during the time of the end does not cover or account for that fact? Or conversely, can you show me, when and how the great crowd teaching was adjusted?

  ----

  Let us cut to the chase and you provide your understanding of the 'great crowd' and how it relates to the present-day members of the other sheep who today coexist with the anointed in doing the Lord's work.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  TD

  If you don't see the problem with the 1984 quote I've provided, then I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss.

  If you believe that view expressed in that quote has been adjusted and there is some other basis (Other than a chronological understanding of a generation) to identify "prospective" members of the great crowd today, then I would appreciate a reference or two.

  --

  Just provide the 1984 quote that concerns you as you have not given specific information and then the said scholar will help you for scholar likes to help the little people.

  scholar JW
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Except the ‘outbreak of the Great War’ was before October of 1914. But because something significant happened in that year, JWs quietly ignore that fact. 😂 (On top of the fact that the Adventist numerology is nonsense, on top of the fact that Jerusalem was definitely destroyed in 587 BCE, not 607.)

  ---

  The outbreak of the Great War is usually assigned to events prior to October, 1914 and by that time the Gentile Times had ended on or about October,1916 with the inauguration of the heavenly Kingdom of God all such events are consistent with our Chronology and interpretation of Bible prophecy.

  The simple fact is that Jerusalem was destroyed not in 586/587 or 588 BCE but in the verified date of 607 BCE.

  ----

  And of course JWs also ignore the fact that in the Bible, Jesus’ parousia explicitly follows the great tribulation. JWs don’t really care what the Bible actually says when it disagrees with their nutty doctrines.

  ---

  Not so for the Bible clearly indicates the Parousia beginning with the king's arrival must precede the Great Tribulation as shown by means of the successive events described in the Olivet Discourse.

  Such 'nutty doctrines' keep you occupied by means of your fixation on our teachings and your presentation of pretty coloured charts!!!!!

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  TD

  Fast forward the clock 40 years and it is clear that an adjustment is on the horizon.

  --

  How so? An adjustment to What?

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  TD

  You can call it bright flash of light if you want. I would call it a rip in the fabric of JW theology that must needs be fixed. The idea that the proximity of the end justified the identification of the great crowd in 1935 might have made sense 50 years ago, but it just doesn't work anymore.

  Salvation, the Ransom and the two Christian hopes are not trivial doctrines and modifying the significance of 1914 might actually be easier than tinkering with them.

  ----

  No, it is a validated doctrine of Biblical Theology rightly espoused by Jehovah's people in keeping with the inspired utterance in Rev.1:1. Despite the passage of time our understanding is validated by the passage of time consistent with the nature of the fulfilment of biblical prophecy so the Lord's people are nourished by faith and the Christian hope for a New World.

  ---

  Salvation, the Ransom and the two Christian hopes are not trivial doctrines and modifying the significance of 1914 might actually be easier than tinkering with them.

  ---

  Indeed, such key doctrines have always from the time of the Bible Students been taught by God's people as no other group has done in conjunction with prophecy or eschatology inaugurated by the events of 1914 CE.

  scholar JW
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Fisherman

  Regardless of mistaken conclusions about the proximity of the end, the eyewitness testimony and the events believed to fulfill Bible prophecy substantiate 1914 —as JW see it. What to say now, nothing happened in 1914? The date is written in stone for JW.

  ---

  Absolutely. The outbreak of the Great War, a fact of modern history which marked the end of the 'Gentile Times' and inaugurated God's Kingdom along with the fulfilment of the Sign of the Parousia confirm the Bible as God's written Word and can properly be termed as 'cast in stone' as a venerable witness.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  TD

  I also think it's a little blasé by implication if nothing else. How would you explain to a survivor of Auschwitz that what they were told in 1935 was wrong?

  Realistically, I don't suppose you could (Not without repercussions) as the JW's (As recently as 2019) were still hailing the 1935 convention as a bright flash of light.

  ---

  The year was a major milestone in Biblical Theology, especially in the field of Eschatology whereupon we received an understanding concerning the modern-day identity of the 'Great Crowd' described in Revelation 7:9 which has proved to serve as nourishing spiritual food for successive generations of God's people right up to the present day.Indeed the brightest of all flashing lights!!!

  scholar JW
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  TD

  Quibbling over exegeses and chronology will not remedy the passage of time or undo its damage to teachings that sprang from the 1914 chronology and the alleged proximity of the end.
  

  Where, for example are the people who where told point blank in 1935 that they were the great multitude?

  The last person I knew who was there and remembered that event died of old age in the late 1970's

  -----

  True we have to deal with the passage of time and many generations have come and passed without seeing the fulfilment of events prophesied and that is really part of Salvation History. However, Jesus Christ admonished His disciples to 'Keep on the Watch' and gave them work to do and that is what the Witnesses since 1919 have been doing- the Lord's work and being ever watchful and the said scholar intends to do likewise!!

  scholar JW