Posts by scholar

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

1. The preponderance of evidence based on NB Chronology advocated by current scholarship positively identifies at least two dates for the Fall of Jerusalem: 586 and 587 BCE. However, Bible Chronology based on the historical reality of the Jewish/Babylonian Exile of 70 years confirmed by secular history and astronomical records prove beyond any doubt that 607 BCE is the correct year for the Fall of Jerusalem.

2. Thus, according to your worldview the date 587 BCE is meaningless. However, true Christians as Bible students have a worldview based on Bible Prophecy and an understanding of Eschatology which not only makes 607 BCE a date of historical significance but marks 1914 CE as a year of prophetic significance creating a firm basis for faith, hope and love.

3. The date 1914 can hardly be a contrivance as its calculation is simply marking an end of the Gentile Times or the 'appointed times of the nations- a specific statement made by our Lord, Jesus Christ. Even right now we see the current earthquake in Turkey as a confirmation that we are living in the Parousia of our Lord beginning in 1914 CE. TH expression ' Babylon's70 years of dominance' is not found in the Bible but is your interpretation originating with SDA and replicated by COJ . Jeremiah's prophecy of the 70 years is described by four Bible writers- Jeremiah, Daniel, Zechariah and Ezra as a fixed, historic period of Exile in Babylon- Servitude to Babylon- Desolation of the Land of Judah and Jerusalem beginning in the historic years of two reigning Kings namely Zedekiah of Judah and Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon as 607 BCE with the Fall of Jerusalem and ending in the historic reign of King Cyrus of Persia with his Decree releasing the Exiles to Return home in 537 CE fulfilling to the very month the prophesied period of 70 years.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

scholar’ would argue that the evidence is just misinterpreted (as it tends to be in all the really inconvenient places 🤦‍♂️). I suppose the modern population of Tyre are misinterpreting their existence too, since it would never be rebuilt or even found. 😂

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The said 'scholar' would demonstrate that Archaeology is not an exact science but is based on available evidence such as artifacts and the interpretation of such excavated materials.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

t would be funny to watch people like ‘scholar’ if they did abandon 1914. But no, they can’t. That is to say, if they did, it would be like the Great Disappointment resulting in most leaving and a few breakaway sects with altered nutbaggery.

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Would it not be funny to watch people like Jeffro if current scholarship abandoned 586 or 587 BCE in favour of 607 BCE which validates 1914 CE as the birth of God's Kingdom.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Phizzy

"Scholar" said : " all of the population had left Judah leaving the Land desolate for a fixed period of 70 years until they returned home 70 years later"

Archaeology clearly shows the land of Judah was NOT left without population during this period. Occupation and farming continued.

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Archaeology at the moment is rather open to the nature of the Land whether it was fully deserted or unoccupied as the Bible explicitly states or that it was populated to some degree. However, it is what the Bible says that overrules the opinions of archaeologists which are built on 'shifting sands'.

The said scholar is very much aware of the matter as he has completed a short online course under the tutelage of Prof. Obed Lipschits who authored The Fall and Rise of Jerusalem -Judah under Babylonian Rule, 2013,Eisenbraums which was the principal textbook for this course. The said scholar received a Certificate for this course.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

This is the kind of dishonest stupidity he has to resort to, as if saying there is no mention of a 70-year exile is the same as saying there was no exile at all. So blatantly dishonest. 😂

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The fact of the Jewish Exile is widely acknowledged from the time of the Babylonian invasion of Judah under Neb until the release of the Jews under Cyrus which period is defined in the biblicard record by numerous authors as 70 years.

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Most of the Jews were exiled in early 597 BCE. Those exiles were told in 594 BCE that Babylon would have 70 years. Later, more people were exiled when Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 BCE. Later still, some more were exiled in 582 BCE. Some Jews returned in 538 BCE, and the period from Jerusalem’s destruction until their return was 49 years, the same period of paying sabbaths indicated in Leviticus.

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This is simply your interpretation of the history of the period. There were two deportations of Jews under Neb but the Exile as a national catastrophe did not begin until all of the population had left Judah leaving the Land desolate for a fixed period of 70 years until they returned home 70 years later to rebuild the Temple, its city and Land which by that time had fully repaid the sabbaths.

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Babylon’s 70 years definitely ended in 539 BCE ‘when Persia began to reign’, after Babylon was ‘called to account’ and therefore began in 609 BCE, which is when Assyria disappeared from history. Jeremiah said the nations had already been ‘given into Nebuchadnezzar’s hand’ by the time he addressed both Jehoiakim and Zedekiah.

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Babylon's 70 years ended with the Return of the Jews under Cyrus in 537 BCE because as Jeremiah prophesied the end of the 70 years was described as a fulfilment, from that point on Babylon's judgement went into effect after 537 BCE, not in 539 BCE.

Poor Jjeffro is misled by false teachers and surrenders his thinking ability. So sad, to bad.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

the doofus who thinks that ‘all the nations serving Babylon’ means ‘Jewish exile’ would proceed to lecture me about the contents of Jeremiah. 😂 Seriously, just go away. I have already provided a website that furnishes all necessary details for a decent understanding of the relevant topics.

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Personal insults do help your cause. The fact a nation in servitude to a foreign power with its population deported away from its homeland for a fixed period of time would by any definition constitute a fact of Exile.

Your website is nothing more than an assortment of pretty coloured charts combined with commentary replicating COJ's thesis and SDA scholarship from the fifties.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

Ah yes, the JW (Adventist) doctrine of the ‘march of the World Powers’. Except, in their own doctrine, the World Power immediately before Babylon was… Assyria. And Babylon’s final conquest of Assyria was in… 609 BCE. This is completely consistent with all the nations serving Babylon for 70 years until it was conquered by Persia in 539 BCE. Even though this could be presented as some remarkable ‘fulfilment of Bible prophecy’ (though the texts were heavily edited after the events), this is not convenient for JW dogma. What a tangled web of fantasy indeed. 😂

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So, it seems that you are arguing for 609 BCE? as the beginning of the 70 years with the Fall of Assyria. This is plain and utter nonsense because Jeremiah the prophet who prophesied about a future 70 years was uttered after the Fall of Assyria in fact it was in Jehoiakim, King of Judah in his 4th year and in Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon in his 1st year calculated as 625/624 BCE according to Bible Chronology. It was not until Neb invaded Judah and dethroned the reigning monarch, King Zedekiah, the last king of Judah with the Fall of Jerusalem causing the Exile that that prophecy began to be fulfilled in 607 BCE.

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scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

Notice how ‘scholar’ dismissively refers to ‘pretty charts’ and (in other posts) ambiguous complaints about ‘methodology’ but does not rebut any specific content. If he were confident in his position, or at least sincere, he could instead go through point by point, indicating specific problems.

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Notice how Jeffro ignores 'scholars' requests for detail and proof when he makes assertions by means of pretty coloured charts and dismisses the role that methodology plays in Chronology maintaining a rather dogmatic position rather than weighing up other alternatives.

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But at the crux of every debate with ‘scholar’, you’ll always end up at ‘that doesn’t account for the 70 years of exile [that isn’t mentioned anywhere]’.

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This is plain and utter nonsense for one of the themes of the OT is the fact of the Exile. Has not Jeffro heard or read a Bible concordance that uses the word and lists its many locations throughout the OT, especially in the book Jeremiah.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

Poor ‘scholar’ seems oblivious to the fact that asserting BM 21946 supports 607 BCE (without any possibility of 606 or 608) only reinforces the fact that there is no ambiguity regarding the correct identification of 587 when the erroneous 20-year gap in JW chronology is removed. 😂

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The military campaigns of Neb which are set out in BM 21946 do not support 587 BCE directly but simply provide a background for Neb's campaigns into Judah which are described in the Bible. Such synchronisms enable a Chronologist to construct a scheme of dates that reflects both historical narratives. Thus, by comparison, one can establish the fact of a 20-year difference between Bible Chronology and NB Chronology when fine-tuned results in 607 rather than 587 BCE.

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Of course, on its own BM 21946 doesn’t say anything about Jerusalem’s destruction at all. But when the biblical chronology is considered in light of the dating of the first siege identified in BM 21946 (not to mention all the other contemporary records of the neo-Babylonian period), 587 BCE is confirmed as the correct year.

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Correct! This is where you err in making invalid claims about Neb's first siege described in this tablet. For such a description supports 607 BCE rather than 587 BCE as a proper understanding of events described in the tablet itself proves.

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When dealing with someone who thinks ‘all the nations serving Babylon for 70 years’ really means ‘70 years of Jewish exile’, there is no point trying to engage that person logically. But other readers can see the JW nonsense for what it is.

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The fact that nations are brought into servitude to a foreign, invading power namely Babylon and conducts deportations of its citizenry to another land would mean Exile which is in fact what happened to the Judahites. Thus the term 'Jewish Exile' or 'Babylonian Exile' is a perfect descriptor of that event and period of history so we can properly label the 70 years as a period of servitude and Exile as described in Jer. 25:11.

scholar JW

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

scholar

Jeffro

I don’t care what you ‘require’, nor about your tedious misrepresentation of what I said. Your nutty 607 doctrine is thoroughly wrong from every angle. You’re clearly beyond help, as recently demonstrated by your pitifully sad ‘interpretation’ of Babylon’s 70 years at Jeremiah 25:11. This isn’t some balanced difference of opinion open for ‘dialogue’. Your unfounded position is thoroughly wrong. You can go away until I feel like trouncing you at another juncture.

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The only thing that I require from you is 'put up or shut up'. Your nutty repetition of the viewpoint of 587 BCE is biblically false. Your interpretation of Jer. 25:11 is simply that and does not accurately represent the context of the text, the other 70 year textual corpus and the fact of the Exile for starters. Your position conflicts with the Bible and is simply a repetition of COJ's thesis and that of 7th Day Adventist scholars from the fifties.

scholar JW