for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Vintage
This book would contain nothing new but simply a rehash of COJ's masterful deception published as Gentile Times Reconsidered and in its latest edition with the added subtitle - Have Jehovah's Witnesses been wrong all along about 607 BCE? Eric Wilson has been a long-time devotee of COJ!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
"fresh and new examination".🤣 No, 'scholar', it's a religious sect's desperate attempt to distort the chronology of the neo-Babylonian period, intended primarily for its gullible compliant members. It has no acceptance among actual scholars or anyone else who has even a passing understanding of the subject. It is immediately obvious that you have the wrong year if you find that Nisan "must" begin in May, which it never does. Imagining that Nisan uniquely starts in May just where JWs need it to is especially naive.
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Nope, No way Hosea! WT scholars have a long-withstanding interest in biblical scholarship and that is why from the early beginnings of the Bible Students who advanced and promoted the subject of Bible Chronology and such a similar interest has now been enhanced with a more accurate view of this tablet - VAT 4956 with its description of Neb's 37 th year. The data in this tablet with its notable lunar eclipse of 15th July and in the third month Simanu means that the year began in May 588 BC so the evidence is there for the benefit of mainstream scholarship.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The lunar eclipse was on 5 July 568 BCE. Obviously ‘scholar’ is wrong because Nisan never starts in May, and it wasn’t necessary to add an intercalary month after the vernal equinox.
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A fresh and new examination of VAT 4956 shows otherwise that in the case of Neb's 37th year, it must have begun in early May 588 BC rather than the usual month of Nisan all because of the insertion of an additional month in that year.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
For those playing along at home, line 6 of VAT4956 refers to an increase in river height in the interval of 8 Adar II (1 April) until 28 Nisan (20 May) 568BCE. The intercalary month Adar II (called “month XII2” in the translation of the tablet) began on 25 March in 568 BCE, and is confirmed in Parker and Dubberstein’s table. Despite ‘scholar’s’ bleating, there was no intercalary month before Nisan in 588BCE.
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Correction. The intercalary month Adar II began not on the 25th March 568 BC but on 2/3 May 588 BC now properly adjusted based on the lunar eclipse 15th July 588 BC This is not shown in PD table as the data of VAT 4956 was unavailable or not cited by PD as shown in the catalogue listing on pages 4-5 in Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C - A.D 75.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
No, doofus, VAT4956 indicates an intercalary month before Nisan of Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year, which is at the end of his 36th year, completely consistent with PD.
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Incorrect boofhead, VAT 4956 shows no such thing for it describes the intercalary month in the context of all of the other observations for that year and is not formatted in the same manner or tabulated as a table shown in PD. Unlike you, WT scholars have always shown competence in the understanding of calendation and in the WT article, ftn.17 states " an extra month (intercalary) was added after the twelfth (last) month (Addaru) of the preceding year".This fact indicates quite clearly that 586 BC has now been displaced by 588 BCE for Neb's 37th year by means of VAT 4956.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The poor addled JW apologist doesn’t understand why something he considers scholarly should cite its source for a claim that disagrees with all scholarship. The ‘method’ described is obviously flawed, so it would be nice to know who the ‘researchers’ were if for no other reason than to laugh at them, but at least they would also have an opportunity to explain their dishonesty. And anyone paying attention would already know my source for this topic is Parker and Dubberstein’s tables, from which I even provided an extract.
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Well if is an issue for you then you should write a letter to the publishers seeking their identification but it must be noted that the article footnote explains not their identity but their methodology. But the big problem for you is that PD does not deal with VAT 4956 and there is a big difference between the astro data for the year 586 or 588 BC and the corresponding dates in PD.
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Except there isn’t an intercalary month in Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year. 🤦♂️ Adar II before Nisan of 568 BCE falls in Nebuchadnezzar’s 36th year.
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But there is an intercalary month in VAT 4956 for Neb's 37th year just as there is an intercalary month shown for 588 BCE in PD so such would affect the calculation of the beginning of the New Year in 588 BC.
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The intercalary month at the end of Nebuchadnezzar’s 17th year only further demonstrates that that year could not have started in May (which is already impossible because Nisan never starts in May).
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Be that as it may but we observe a different phenomenon in the case of Neb's 37th year as described for 588 BC in VAT 4956 proving that the year began in early May.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The particularly embarrassing part of all this is that Parker and Dubberstein’s tables do not allow for the 20-year gap in JW chronology for the neo-Babylonian period. So rather than trying to fit observations from the actual year 588BCE to VAT4956, the JW cronies should be looking at the actual year 568BCE, which JWs call 588BCE. Then they could say that VAT 4956 actually does support that year without making obviously false claims about Babylonian months starting at impossible times. But that would distort all later astronomical observations during the neo-Babylonian period, including those that conform 539BCE as the year Cyrus conquered Babylon.
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The said scholar and WT scholars are well aware that the PD tables do not allow for the 20 year gap in NB Chronology and that is no big deal for PD tables are about Babylonian Chronology and WT scholars are all about Bible Chronology.
What it is all about is trying to determine in a modern calendar what date can be properly assigned for Neb's 37th year described by astronomical data such as lunar eclipses described in VAT 4956. Scholars previously thought that 568 BC was an accepted fit but now owing to the research of Rof Furuli and confirmed by WT scholars that 588 BCE is a better fit for the data in VAT 4956. Such research does not affect or conflict necessarily with other tabulations but is confined to a specific year-Neb's 37th year and a specific tablet -VAT 4956.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
It is definitionally impossible for an eclipse on 15 Simanu to have occurred on 15 July in any year during the Neo-Babylonian period.
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Utter nonsense for interpretation is involved with astro data just as a methodology and WTscholars including Furuli's research find differently.
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And what are the names of these ‘WT scholars’? 😂 Funny how the dismal 2011 attempt at defending their nonsense didn’t name the “researchers” who supposedly analysed VAT4956.
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Why is that important? At least the footnote describes the method used and the names of the astro tables and while we are at it what is the source of your data?
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So? You’ve already shown that you couldn’t even understand the placement of the intercalary month in early 587 BCE, so your adjudication means nothing.
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I suspect neither do you for I find it interesting that one observes an intercalary month associated with the PD table for the same year- 588 BCE and similar an intercalary month assigned for Neb's 37th year in VAR 4956. As one famous Australian politician once said: 'Please explain!' On the other hand, please don't for you are no expert.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Now he’s happy to include the previous evening! 😂🤦♂️ But Simanu never begins on June 30 (or any day after 27 June) on the Julian calendar in the Neo-Babylonian period either. And ‘scholar’ was adamant that the previous evening isn’t a valid starting point for PD anyway. 😂 And of course VAT4956 says nothing of the sort because it refers to an eclipse on 15 Simanu (5 July 568BCE), not 1 Simanu for the wrong date in the wrong month in a different year.
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Nope. According to the data in VAT 4956 the eclipse is more correctly assigned to 15 July 588 BC and not to 5 July 568 BCE as the result of the research by WT scholars.
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And unfortunately for ‘scholar’, I’ve already demonstrated that I have interpreted PD correctly where ‘scholar’ dismally failed.
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The said scholar does not trust your interpretation of PD's tabulation!!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
He can't even properly interpret a table. No wonder he accepts JW doctrines
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Neither can you!
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Wow. No, doofus, Simanu began on 21 June in that year. But you believe it started on 1 July, remember? It’s Nisanu that you incorrectly believe began in May
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Nope, it is June 30/ July 1,588 BC.according to VAT 4956
Go away boofhead.!
scholar jw
