for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
The said scholar has the following translations into English of the original article of VAT 4956 by Paul V Neugebauer and Ernst F Weidner in 1915.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The Bible Students adopted earlier Millerite (Adventist) chronology. They've consistently been wrong, and they've never been at the forefront of anything.
--
Not so.WT Bible Chronology arose from two sources namely Nelson Barbour and Christopher Bowen an Anglican Rector.
--
Hardly. They've just dug themselves a deeper hole by doubling down on 588BCE supposedly being Nebuchandezzar's 37th year (despite 588BCE actually being what JW chronology calls 608BCE). By claiming that VAT 4596 isn't consistent with 568 BCE, the Watch Tower Society can never fill the 20 years of its missing neo-Babylonian chronology without admitting its reinterpretation of VAT 4956 is complete rubbish.
--
Rubbish. The hole that has been dug is for those who support 586 or 587 BC for the Fall of Jerusalem now disproved by a more accurate representation of VAT 4956 which confirms 588 BC for Neb's 37th year. Thus such additional evidence along with the 70 years proves with a comparison with NB Chronology the missing 20 years and the calculated date of 607 BCE for the Fall of Jerusalem.
--
Simanu never begins in July (or any day after 27 June), just as Nisan never begins in May, so this automatically tells anyone with even a passing understanding of the subject that the Watch Tower Society's interpretation is obviously wrong. No one in mainstream scholarship is interesting in adopting that nonsense. (And certainly not without knowing who the supposed 'researchers' were.
--
However, VAT 4956 says differently as shown by WT scholarship made public so that the scholarly community can reap the benefit. Scholars are very interested as shown by some published criticism on this new understanding which the said scholar has to hand. You seem to be very troubled by those anonymous researchers but the said scholar is rejoicing in their anonymity.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Alethia
AwakenJw website has put together a timeline for Jurusalems destruction and related prophecies. As you can see there is no magical 20 year gap. Its literally impossible.
--
Not so. The focus of attention regarding a 'twenty-year gap' lies in the proper chronology and nature of Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 years marked primarily as a period of destruction or desolation of Judah in respect of its kingship, temple, capital, population and land. This prophecy also was a period of servitude to Babylon and a period of Exile in Babylon. The biblical facts prove that the 70 years could have only commenced with the Fall of Jerusalem during the reigns of Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon and Zedekiah of Judah in 607 BCE and ended with the Return of the Jews under Cyrus in 537 BCE ending the Exile.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Vintage
This book would contain nothing new but simply a rehash of COJ's masterful deception published as Gentile Times Reconsidered and in its latest edition with the added subtitle - Have Jehovah's Witnesses been wrong all along about 607 BCE? Eric Wilson has been a long-time devotee of COJ!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
"fresh and new examination".🤣 No, 'scholar', it's a religious sect's desperate attempt to distort the chronology of the neo-Babylonian period, intended primarily for its gullible compliant members. It has no acceptance among actual scholars or anyone else who has even a passing understanding of the subject. It is immediately obvious that you have the wrong year if you find that Nisan "must" begin in May, which it never does. Imagining that Nisan uniquely starts in May just where JWs need it to is especially naive.
--
Nope, No way Hosea! WT scholars have a long-withstanding interest in biblical scholarship and that is why from the early beginnings of the Bible Students who advanced and promoted the subject of Bible Chronology and such a similar interest has now been enhanced with a more accurate view of this tablet - VAT 4956 with its description of Neb's 37 th year. The data in this tablet with its notable lunar eclipse of 15th July and in the third month Simanu means that the year began in May 588 BC so the evidence is there for the benefit of mainstream scholarship.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The lunar eclipse was on 5 July 568 BCE. Obviously ‘scholar’ is wrong because Nisan never starts in May, and it wasn’t necessary to add an intercalary month after the vernal equinox.
--
A fresh and new examination of VAT 4956 shows otherwise that in the case of Neb's 37th year, it must have begun in early May 588 BC rather than the usual month of Nisan all because of the insertion of an additional month in that year.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
For those playing along at home, line 6 of VAT4956 refers to an increase in river height in the interval of 8 Adar II (1 April) until 28 Nisan (20 May) 568BCE. The intercalary month Adar II (called “month XII2” in the translation of the tablet) began on 25 March in 568 BCE, and is confirmed in Parker and Dubberstein’s table. Despite ‘scholar’s’ bleating, there was no intercalary month before Nisan in 588BCE.
--
Correction. The intercalary month Adar II began not on the 25th March 568 BC but on 2/3 May 588 BC now properly adjusted based on the lunar eclipse 15th July 588 BC This is not shown in PD table as the data of VAT 4956 was unavailable or not cited by PD as shown in the catalogue listing on pages 4-5 in Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C - A.D 75.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
No, doofus, VAT4956 indicates an intercalary month before Nisan of Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year, which is at the end of his 36th year, completely consistent with PD.
--
Incorrect boofhead, VAT 4956 shows no such thing for it describes the intercalary month in the context of all of the other observations for that year and is not formatted in the same manner or tabulated as a table shown in PD. Unlike you, WT scholars have always shown competence in the understanding of calendation and in the WT article, ftn.17 states " an extra month (intercalary) was added after the twelfth (last) month (Addaru) of the preceding year".This fact indicates quite clearly that 586 BC has now been displaced by 588 BCE for Neb's 37th year by means of VAT 4956.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The poor addled JW apologist doesn’t understand why something he considers scholarly should cite its source for a claim that disagrees with all scholarship. The ‘method’ described is obviously flawed, so it would be nice to know who the ‘researchers’ were if for no other reason than to laugh at them, but at least they would also have an opportunity to explain their dishonesty. And anyone paying attention would already know my source for this topic is Parker and Dubberstein’s tables, from which I even provided an extract.
--
Well if is an issue for you then you should write a letter to the publishers seeking their identification but it must be noted that the article footnote explains not their identity but their methodology. But the big problem for you is that PD does not deal with VAT 4956 and there is a big difference between the astro data for the year 586 or 588 BC and the corresponding dates in PD.
--
Except there isn’t an intercalary month in Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year. 🤦♂️ Adar II before Nisan of 568 BCE falls in Nebuchadnezzar’s 36th year.
--
But there is an intercalary month in VAT 4956 for Neb's 37th year just as there is an intercalary month shown for 588 BCE in PD so such would affect the calculation of the beginning of the New Year in 588 BC.
--
The intercalary month at the end of Nebuchadnezzar’s 17th year only further demonstrates that that year could not have started in May (which is already impossible because Nisan never starts in May).
--
Be that as it may but we observe a different phenomenon in the case of Neb's 37th year as described for 588 BC in VAT 4956 proving that the year began in early May.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
The particularly embarrassing part of all this is that Parker and Dubberstein’s tables do not allow for the 20-year gap in JW chronology for the neo-Babylonian period. So rather than trying to fit observations from the actual year 588BCE to VAT4956, the JW cronies should be looking at the actual year 568BCE, which JWs call 588BCE. Then they could say that VAT 4956 actually does support that year without making obviously false claims about Babylonian months starting at impossible times. But that would distort all later astronomical observations during the neo-Babylonian period, including those that conform 539BCE as the year Cyrus conquered Babylon.
---
The said scholar and WT scholars are well aware that the PD tables do not allow for the 20 year gap in NB Chronology and that is no big deal for PD tables are about Babylonian Chronology and WT scholars are all about Bible Chronology.
What it is all about is trying to determine in a modern calendar what date can be properly assigned for Neb's 37th year described by astronomical data such as lunar eclipses described in VAT 4956. Scholars previously thought that 568 BC was an accepted fit but now owing to the research of Rof Furuli and confirmed by WT scholars that 588 BCE is a better fit for the data in VAT 4956. Such research does not affect or conflict necessarily with other tabulations but is confined to a specific year-Neb's 37th year and a specific tablet -VAT 4956.
scholar JW
