scholar

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Posts by scholar

• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  According to your blog 586 BCE is just as feasible as 587 BCE according to your methodology..WT methodology based not on numerous calenders but the Bible proves 607 BCE is the correct date.

  scholar JW
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  As there are no known secular records that provide a specific date for the event, information from the Bible must be used. Whilst one might question the reliability of the Bible, if the details therein are not considered reliable for determining the date of Jerusalem’s destruction by Nebuchadnezzar, then no specific year can otherwise be asserted with any certainty.

  ---

  Your words not mine as an admission that there can be no certainty about 586 or 587 BCE.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Not just delusional but an outright liar. Pathetic--

  ---,

  That is what you admit in your Blog.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  scholar

  TO ALL OPPONENTS AND CRITICS OF 607 BCE

  In all of my many decades in the pursuit of scholarship pertaining to 607 BCE whether from scholars or our critics I have not read any scholarship that disproves that 607 BCE was not the date for the Fall of Jerusalem. I have read every piece of literature published in English from the fifties to date and have not found a one, single line of evidence that disproves 607 BCE for the Fall.

  My challenge on this forum is for any such opponent or critic to show such proof that 607 BCE is not the date for the Fall of Jerusalem by means of at least one line of evidence. Surely, that is not too much to ask?

  scholar JW
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Ws were saying 606 BCE until 1943 when the finally realised there was no year zero. They refused to change 1914, so they ‘changed’ history instead.

  --

  Chronology as with all science is not static but is ever evolving so no surprises here!

  --

  t really will be funny seeing how ‘scholar’ behaves if they do drop 1914.

  ---

  The evidence for 1914 as with 607 is incontrovertible. Both dates have well withstood the tests of time as strands of that strong cable of Bible Chronology. Scholar is at peace!!!

  ---

  And the correct year consistent with all of the evidence is definitely 587 BCE. Publication of Babylonian records confirmed the correct year decades ago, but various sources continue to simply repeat Thiele’s outdated chronology. No analysis of the records has pointed to 586 BCE in the last half a century.

  --

  I admire your confidence but you yourself on your Blog regarding this controversy admit that we cannot know the precise date of the Fall whether it is 587 or 586 BCE so you have a biggy, big pwoblem here. (mispelling). Thiele remains the go-to source for biblical chronology as shown by its use in the current scholarly literature and academic journals.

  scholar JW
  
  

  
  
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  scholar

  Phizzy

  Not just Archaeology, but a study of the Babylonian Astronomical Tablets establish without doubt that 587 BCE, (or possibly 586 but that is doubtful) IS the date that King Neb. destroyed Jerusalem.

  The Stars do not lie ! Confirmed by NASA too.

  ----

  Utter rubbish. Scholars do not know the precise date for the fall of Jerusalem whether it is 586, 587 or 588 BCE. JW's do know and it is 607 BCE which is incontrovertible. The Babylonian astronomical tablets are hopeless as Rolf Furuli has demonstrated in his research so it is far better to rely on the ancient inspired historical record of the Holy Bible which has its inherent chronology which establishes 607 BCE for the Fall and 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times.

  scholar JW
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  scholar

  JW GoneBad

  Be honest you're a WT Apologist...the name suits you!🤣

  No way are you a Scholar!

  --

  The said scholar is both. A scholar and a WT Apologist to boot!

  scholar JW

  BA MA BA (Hons. inc) Religious Studies/Philosophy, Philosophy, Studies in Religion, Deakin, University of Sydney
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Further to this is a fact that when the WTS published Babylon the Great God's Kingdom Rules in 1963 the fire was lit for the ongoing controversy surrounding 607 BCE and the twenty difference between Bible Chronology and NB Chronology which is strongly advocated by Christendoms scholars. It was common practice from the sixties that SDA opponents of the Witness would have a well-marked Babylon book of its pages pertinent to discussions of Bible Chronology especially of the reign of King Jehoiakim. one prominent SDA theologian who was taught by the prominent SDA scholar, Siegfried Horn went on lecture tours in Australia with charts in attempt to disprove WT Bible Chronology and 607 BCE.

  As a side note, this same scholar rescued and saved the lives of a Witness family either en route or otherwise to a Convention off a deserted island in Fiji which was reported in the Readers Digest. Life has its ironies.

  scholar JW
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Nathan Natas

  We all know that since the year zero (on the FredFranzian calendar) the WTB&TS has defied archaeology and insisted that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 BCE is a more likely date. In fact, the book "The Gentile Times Reconsidered: Have Jehovah's Witnesses Been Wrong All Along About 607 BCE?" by Carl Olof Jonsson and Rud Persson made this conversation public

  -----

  Celebrated WT scholars have long championed the date 607 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem since 1944 whereas previous to that time it was 606 BCE based on sound Biblical Chronology. Scholars especially from the time of Edwin Thiele in 1944 published research that purports to prove that 586 BCE was the date for the Fall (of Jerusalem) late some scholars proposed 587 BCE as an alternative based on the consideration as to the use of Neb's 18th or 19 the year based on the words of Jeremiah the Prophet which debate remains to this day a point of major scholarly contention.

  Thus, it can be positively stated that scholars to date and including Carl Jonsson and his devotees do not know the precise date for the Fall of Jerusalem whereas JW 's do know the precise date being proved to be 607 BCE based on the secular and biblical evidence centred around the Exilic period of 70 years again based on the words of Jeremiah the Prophet.

  Carl Olof Jonsson in GTR with its many editions claims to prove using' seventeen different lines of evidence' the length of the Neo-Babylonian period which would falsify WT Bible Chronology and its date of 607 BCE (GTR, 2004, 4th edn. p.88; GTR, 2021, 4th edn. p.88). This research which began in the late sixties and concluded in the mid seventies was simply a rehash of scholarship from the fifties from SDA researchers in Australia so there were no surprises here!!!

  Such SDA scholars including Jonsson have as with all of the scholars of Christendom stumbled over an interpretation of Jeremiah's seventy years failing to provide a consistent interpretation of not only its chronology but its very nature which remains a source of vexation to this very day.

  So, the joke is not on WT scholars and the Witnesses who have publicly proclaimed the validity of 1914 CE but is on worldly scholarship which has demonstrated its contempt for Bible prophecy its loyal Witnesses and God's inspired Word. They should hang their heads in shame.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  40

  Was it Designed?

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jw website is currently featuring a piece: the shell of the diabolical ironclad beetle​—was it designed?

  it is part of their regular tedious 'was it designed?

  ' series that purports that very very specific animal species must have been specifically designed because of some seemingly amazing feature.. but they seem completely unaware that this directly contradicts their notion that only very broad 'kinds' were required on the mythical 'ark'.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  But they seem completely unaware that this directly contradicts their notion that only very broad 'kinds' were required on the mythical 'ark'. Does anyone ever point this out to them?

  ---

  Unnecessary, for WT writers do accurately represent God's Word, the Holy Bible and evidence from the natural world as shown in the splendid video about that 'creeping animal of the ground', the Diabolical Ironclad Beetle. Refer Gen. 1: 24, 25, 26.

  Regarding the animals admitted by Noah into the Ark, the account simply states that 'creeping animals of the ground' were sought, brought into the Ark and survived- Gen. 6:20; 7:14; 8:17, 19. These representatives of the Biota were described as kinds as a proper zoological classification whereupon in time speciation of these kinds utilizing the DNA mechanism and other environmental factors led to the wondrous appearance of the diabolical ironclad beetle - a creeping thing of the ground. an insect which in fact gives the said scholar 'the creeps' as does your nonsensical ravings.

  scholar JW