scholar

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  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

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  scholar

  Earnest

  I read your post with interest and I make the following comments. It is true that some lexicons do give a variety of meanings for malkut which includes that of 'reign' but Hebrew Theological Dictionaries give such meanings as 'royal power', dominion, royal dignity, kingdom. One reference work says regarding malkut: "It seems as though a stronger emphasis is put on the activity of ruling in the case of malkut, it therefore also refers to the right or office of ruling as king, royal dignity, and even to the period of reign. NIDOTTE, 1997, Vol.2. p.957.

  In reference to the NWT translation of malkut as kingship, I have not meant to imply that this means vassalage even though Jehoiakim was in fact a vassal to Neco and Nebuchadnezzar for much of his reign. The fact that there is a semantic overlap for the two closely related Hebrew terms means that the translater must be caredul in how he renders malkut in both Daniel 1:1 and 2:1. In fact two Jewish commentaries apply the 'third year' to the latter part of Jehoiakim's reign or kingship. Clearly, the use of kingship rather than reign shows that this text cannot be used as a chronological datum with the sense of some absolute date but rather is of historiographical significance in establishing an important event in the kingship of Jehoiakim. In short, there is a strong Jewish tradition thsat supports the WT understanding that the third years was the eleventh year of Jehoiakimm;s rule.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

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  scholar

  Alan F

  You are mistaken in your view that Jehovah sent marauding bands because Jehoiakim rebelled. In fact, verses 3 and 4 give the reason, it was because of Jehovah's word spoken by the prophets and to remove Judah from his sight because of the sins of Manasseh and for the innocent blood spilt by Manasseh. These verses give three reason for Jehovah sending invaders into Judah.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

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  scholar

  Alan F

  You ask for my observations on 2 Kings 24:1-4. The problematic part of this section begins with verse 2 wherein Jehovah sends marauding bands against Judah. This event must have occurred between Jehoiakim's fourth year (625 BCE) and his eighth year (621-20 BCE) whereupon his vassalage to Nebuchadnezzar began according to Daniel 1:1 and 2 Kings 24:1. During those four years or so Nebuchadnezzar had not then invaded Judah but nevertheless Jehoiakim's kingdom was under constant threat. If one assumes that 2 Kings 24:1 applies to the latter part of Jehoiakim's reign it does not necesarily follow that the events in verse 2 immediately follow on as there may well be discontinuity between the evnts of verse 2 and verse 1.In short, I believe that the invasion of the marauders precedes that of the commencement of the vassalage of Jehoiakim to Nebuchadnezzar. You will find reference to this discussion in the GTR, 1998, pp. 340-341.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

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  2. 
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  scholar

  Alan F

  It is an assertion on your part that the Society no longer has a firm chronology for the Divided Monarchy because a simplified schema appears in the revised Aid book namely the Insight volumes. I totally reject your assertion, I would say that the presentation in the Insight book is simply suggestive of a more simplified schema for the benefit of the brethren. There is no reason to believe that the Society has abandoned its presentation of the chronology of the kings something of which ypu are enable to contribute.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

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  2. 
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• 

  scholar

  Alleymom

  You need to explain the difference between the use of kingship (NWT) or reign (KJV) used in Daniel 1:1. I fully appreciate that in the OT both terms are employed in the NWT. Kingship has far greater theological implications than reign as shown by the fact that kingship is given specific treatment in major reference worksas opposed to reign which is simply a chronological datum which is omitted in Daniel 1:1.

  scholar BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Alleymom

  You need to explain the difference between the use of kingship (NWT) or reign (KJV) used in Daniel 1:1. I fully appreciate that in the OT both terms are employed in the NWT. Kingship has far greater theological implications than reign as shown by the fact that kingship is given specific treatment in major reference worksas opposed to reign which is simply a chronological datum which is omitted in Daniel 1:1.

  scholar BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

  1. 
  2. 
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  scholar

  rem

  You challenge me to post a chart of Babylonian king and their reigns with their respective dates. I challenge you to post the reigns and dates for the Divided Monarchy for Judah and Israel. I have put this challenge to all readers on this board, to date nobody is prepared to propose such a list and yet you all talk about the Jonsson hypothesis representing an absolute chronology. You must be dreaming.

  scholar BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Alleymom

  I did not say that the translation 'kingship' means vassalage at all but the fact is that Jehoiakim was a vassal to Neb. The word kingship suggests vassalage by implication and does just mean reign as a pure chronological datum. In other words one needs to becareful in imputing a chronological datim to this verse as the NWT uses kingship rather than reign.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Alleymom

  Your long and tedious replies contribute nothing new to this debate as I am fully aware of all this information thanks. Regarding Daniel 1:1 the translation reads 'kingship' and not 'reign' as in the NWT, There is a big difference between these two words so it can only refer to something significant about his reign namelt that in the course of his kingship, Jehoiakim was vassal to Neb. Remember the total length of his reign was 11 years so what and when was he a vassal to Neb? It could only have been during his last three years of the reign. The Insight volume under Jehoiakim, Vol.1, pp. 1268-69 says: "Since Jehoiakim's revolt against Babylon led to his downfall after about 11 years on the throne , the beginning of his three year vassalage to Babylon must have begun toward the end of his eighth year of rule, or early in 629 BCE. this view is also supported by Josephus as you no doubt are fullaware as you seem such an expert on the subject and having made up your mind on the matter.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Alleymom

  You ask three questions concerning the validity of 539 and I answer in the affirmative as well explained in WT literature. The Society quotes from Thiele because he was an oustanding chronologist but this not mean that he was infallible and neither is his chronology. Regarding Daniel 1:1 it can be interpreted to pertain to the latter part of his vassalage to Nebuchadnezzer hence the expression kingship rather than reign as put in the NWT. In any event you have your chronology based on secular schema and mine which is based on a biblical schema. Never the twain shall meet.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion