i have read that thousands of babylonian business records exist on clay tablets, and that these alone provide proof that the year 607bce is not what the watchtower claims it is.. since business is conducted on a day to day basis, these records should provide a continuous record of each babylonian kings reign.
is there a summary of the babylonian business records?
in particular, a timeline showing the number of business tables in existence corresponding to various kings and dates within a king/s reign?.
VM44
Perhaps more to the point you should ask whether Carl Jonsson can translate and comment on the cuneiform script featured in the photo before he can be taken seriously when discussing the matter in his recent GTR!
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
i have read that thousands of babylonian business records exist on clay tablets, and that these alone provide proof that the year 607bce is not what the watchtower claims it is.. since business is conducted on a day to day basis, these records should provide a continuous record of each babylonian kings reign.
is there a summary of the babylonian business records?
in particular, a timeline showing the number of business tables in existence corresponding to various kings and dates within a king/s reign?.
VM44
The Society has stated its view on the corpus of business tablets relating to the Neo-Babylonian period in the Appendix to the publication, Let Your Kingdom Come published in 1981. WT scholars fully recognize and are excited about such a rich repository of historical and cultural information but we also note the need fo temper any exuberance in such relative chronology presented in these tablets. The data presented in these tablets simply consists of regnal data which needs to be converted into an absolute chronology for the period in question. These tablets do not give any calender dates so such regnal data needs to be interpreted into a chronology schema.
Higher critics and apostates who adhere to the Jonsson hypothesis believe that there is a twenty year gap between secular chronology and WT chronology and thus disproving the validity and integrity of the calcuable date of 607 BCE. WT chronology only accepts the validity and the integrity of the historical data presented in God's Word which presents 607 as the ONLY possible candidate for the Fall of Jerusalem. If such a methodology creates a twenty years gap between the sacred and the profane chronology then so be it. Already, WT scholars are meeting the challenges offered by the mirage of secular evidence in the form of the Oslo Chronology as presented by Rolf Furuli who will publish his research into Babylonian Chronology in the near future. Furulu unlike Carl Jonsson, is fully competent in dealing with such primary evidence and is able to provide a fresh look at conventional wisdom.
In any event, Christians who loyally adhere to the superiority of God's Word are not disturbed by the interpretations of men and in faith believe that as time progresses God fully vindicates his faithful servants.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
are you able to tell if someone is a jw just by looking or listening to a person?
what are the give away signs that make you just know that they're a witness?
minimus
Its that Kingdom smile.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.
the 'prophetic rule'?
day fer a year?
City Fan
In AlanF's last posting he mentions that the seventy years mentioned in Zechariah do not refer to one period but two periods independent of each other. A comment please. I will respond to your last post and to Alan F's shortly.
scholar
i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.
the 'prophetic rule'?
day fer a year?
Old Soul
Listen you clown it is not rocket science. The simple facts are that the land was desolate for a considerable period which some consider to be fifty years, others seventy including WT scholars. If the land was desolated without an inhabitant then the people must have been exiled and if exiled then the people must have been invaded and made subject to a foreigh power namely Babylon. Thus the seventy years can only be properly understood as being of exile, servitude, and desolation. This is not a fantastic contrivance at all bu faithfully represent Jeremaic theology and is supported by Daniel, the Chronicler and Zechariah.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.
the 'prophetic rule'?
day fer a year?
mkr32208
In answer to your question, NO.Because I believe that there is sufficient secular and overwhelming biblical evidence that validates the calender date of 607. I argue about because apostates dogmatically asert that 607 is incorrect as they have surrended their critical thinking to the Jonsson hypothesis and hav ebelieved in an alternative that is simply a dead-end determination. After, 596 or 587 are useless dates having no application for those interested in prophecy.
You state that my arguments are unscholarly if this isreally the case then why is that it is my postings that have attracted the most reaction and interest on this board. Why is it that atheists like Alan F are moved to comment quite vehemently when I post on this subject? Such idiots respond to my posts because they are scared that my comments will undermine their blind error. I have every intention to exposing Jonsson's fraudulent hypothesis so you had better get used to it.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.
the 'prophetic rule'?
day fer a year?
Old Soul
Thank you for your three questions:
1. I am glad that you agree that there are no biblical problems with WT chronology because it is Bible based and not compromised by higher critics.
2.Your second comment is rather odd because it seems to me that you have a poor understanding of WT chronology because it has always used a pivotal or Absolute Date which are derived from secular sources This method is well explained in older and mor recent WT publications. In recent times we have chosed 539 as a pivotal date for the fall of Bablon. This date is determined from secular sources.
3.I am well pleased that you find my recent comments hilarious, perhaps your hilarity is similar to mine when I read Alan F's desperate attempts to silence me by insults. I enjoy very much such nonsense particularly when he is an avowed sceptic and expects his exegesis to be taken seriously. No, this observation is purely my own and shows that I am capable of original thought. WT chronology has a;ways placed an emhasis on the seventy years as desolation of the land which by definition implies exile and servitude. From a critical study of those relevant texts and the scholarly literature on the subject, I believe that these three elements of the seventy years should be promoted. There is no one text that says these three things but when all of those texts are taken together and in combination with the whole book of Jeremiah, the above conclusion is logical and sound.
I owe my understanding of the Bible to the FDS but over many years one can deepen and sharpen one's spiritual understanding and comprehension. My interest in chronology was sharpened by defending our beliefs with the SDA's some thirty years ago and with the recent appeareance of the Jonsson nonsense. In fact I have found no better champion of WT chronology than the criticism of it by Jonsson. His discussion of the seventy years is fuzzy, complex and unbelievable because he proposes that there are two or three seventy year periods which is crazy.
Your last comment about the invention of 607 to uphold some doctrine is malicious, I put it to you that 606/607 were dates calculated from the biblical and secular evidence nourished by an interest in prophecy and the Lord's Advent. In other words theology that utilized such chronology was a part of Christian Tradition and was later acquired and developed by Russell in more recent times.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.
the 'prophetic rule'?
day fer a year?
City Fan
It is my own summation of all the biblical and historical evidence based on the 'seventy years' texts and those biblical books that deal with prophecy, history and theology of this unique period of Jewish history.To conclude otherwise would require this period to be understood euther as a round number or to have the seventy yeras asigned to different historical periods which is nonsensical. WT chronology alone harmonizes all the available data into a holistic account of events for that critical period.
scholat
BA MA Studies in Religion
i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.
the 'prophetic rule'?
day fer a year?
Alan F and City Fan
1. Apostates and critics have various interpretations of the seventy years and are hopelessly confused on this matter. For example, the Jonsson hypothesis claims that are twi sevety year periods at least: a period of Babylonian supremacy of servitude ending with 539 but no substantive beginning. Jonsson struggles with two candidates such as 605 or 609? and the seventy years of Zechariah from a hopless 589-587? until 520-515? Talk about hopeless confusion. This range of Zechariah is plainly stupid because it shows that his interpretation of the seventy years as present and unfulfilled disallows a seventy years calculation. These proposed dates of four in number offer numerous time periods or permutations and becomes a statistical nightmare. Thiese facts are from GTR, 1998, 3rd edn, pp228-9.
2.In Zechariah 1:12 the text clearly states"whom you have denounced these seventy years" which is a clear past time event or period which had already been fulfilled . The only period that would be known to these returnees would be the previous exile by Babylon which began when the temple was destroyed and the land desolated. This proven by the fact that this period cannot be determined as shown by Jonsson and those who argue that this event is somehow still ongoing. if it is argued that the seventy years is ongoing how can it be seventy years and what year did it precisely end and begin?Also, the context clearly shows that the denunciation referred not just to Jerusalem but also to the cities of Judah which only happened in that period of servitude, exile and desolation.
3. In Zechariah 7:5 there is another past time reference introduced into a present time discourse. The fastings referred to were carried on by the Jews after the loss of the Temple and memorialized right up to the reign of Darius.The verses immediately following verse five are a sarcastic reminder of Jehovah's denunciation and judgement of his formerly disobedient people which finally concludes in verses 13 and 14 of the desolation of the land.
In short, advocates of a present time hypothesis such as Jonsson cannot propose a definite beginning or ending of this seventy years. Those who support a past time hypothesis are able to point to the definite period of seventy years of servitude, exile and desolation which had already expired and was imbedded into the Jewish psyche so as to be memorialized by annular fastings.
scholar
Pole
No it is not my phone number but it is a sacred calender date which is far superior to the demonic dates of 586 or 587 advanced by apostates who formerly believed and taught the significance of that year.Such people have no credibility as they are like the blind following the blind.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
