jerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
Jeffro
Post 941
Well there we have it only one out of three scholars accepts 587 with the majority of scholars accepting 586. Why then do you arbitrarily select 587 rather than 586?
I am rather happy to be amongst those scholars who fit into the 0% category accepting 607.
scholar JW
jerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
Jeffro
Post 942
So what is your data for 538 BCE as the date for the Return. Perhaps you could list the steps involved in determining that year rather than 537 BCE and perhaps you could enlist the aid of Alan F. Let us compare your speculation and circular reasoning with the comments in the Insight volume.
scholar JW
jerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
Jeffro
Post 943
Correct, Daniel discerned that Babylon fell in 539 and was encouraged by the imminent release of the exiles with a two years at 537. Well Done!
Paul's canonization of scripture would equal that of modern day canonization of 66 books making up the Holy Scriptures, all inspired of God.
Zechariah was discussing the seventy years of Jeremiah and that is proven by the context of both separate chapters where reference is made to past experience of ensalvement and exile in Babylon.
Daniel unlike yourself knew exactly the chronology of that one seventy year period as foretold by Jeremiah ending in 537 BCE with the Return of the exiles home.
scholar JW
jerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
Auld Soul
Indeed !Daniel was referring to Jeremiah's predictions about the seventy years that these applied not to Babylon as you claim but for Judah. Jeremiah 25;12 inroduces the time element 'fulfilling of the seventy years' of Judah whenc e Babylon would receive her judgement of desolation. I agree with you Daniel knew both the beginning and the end of the seventy years and I would add that so too, Jeremiah.
I disagree with you that there is a neutral aspect regarding the devastations of Jerusalem having no past-present or future aspect. The paper by Applegate on an exegesis of this verse indicates that there is a continuative aspect from the time of Daniel's prayer. I propose that such aspect is proven by the expression 'fulfilling'.
In regard to Zechariah you agree with me and thos e celebrated WT scholars that the seventy years were a past period which differes from the Jonsson/apostate view. Welcome aboard.
Jeremiah clearly indicated that Jerusalem and Judah were to be devastated in order for the land to keep its sabbaths. Covenant and sabbath theology makes this a matter of fact. Jeremiah 27:16 shows at the time of Jeremiah uttering that prophecy there was apossibility that Jehoivah's judgement could be reduced by an exile alone but they ignored Jeremiah's pleadings and brought upon them a much heavier burden that is the complete desolation of the land for seventy years.
scholar JW
jerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
Narkissos
Remember you heard this first from the said scholar that the seventy years are the foundation for the latter 'seventy weeks of years' prophecy. The reasons why this is the case is as follows:
1. Both are prophetic in nature, the latter is given in answer to the prayer about the former.
2. The literary structure of the narrative that is ch.9.
3. The prophecy of verses 24-27 begins with a time element instead of ending with it as is more common with other Danielic prophecies.
4. Common use of the number 70
5. Both are multiples of seven
6. Furthermore, when the symbolic units of the seventy weeks are interpreted according to the literal units of the 70 years, a relationship is produced which parallels the relationship between the jubilee period and sabbactical year period.
7. Such relationship was recognized also by the Qumran community
scholar JW
2.
the nail in the coffin of the society's understanding of the seventy years appears to be zech 1:12 and 7:1. both of these verses refer to the 70 years as ongoing rather than past events.
i'm not sure how anyone can claim the society has a "holistic" view of the 70 years when they haven't even dealt with these two verses.. i should say they haven't dealt with them at all, there is one article for each of those verses, but, iirc, the argumentation was very weak.
anyone happen to have those references off hand?.
ackack
You are sadly misinformed because Zechariah's seventy years can only refer to that past historic period when the Jews were exiled in Babylon whilst the land was desolate for seventy years.Zechariah absolutely demonstrates that there is only one period of seventy years for Judah specified in the entire OT.The context of both chapters proves that the seventy years was that past momentous event known to Zechariah and the now returned people.
scholar JW
jerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
Leolaia
Correct, Daniel in his introduction to his lengthy prayer which comprises the entire chapter makes historical refernce to the current seventy year period. During this prayer to Jehovah God, Daniel refers often to the current state of Jerusalem and Judah as a desolated place. At the end of the prayer, Daniel is comforted by encouraging words from the angel Gabriel who reassured him that Jerusalem and her temple would be rebuit during a period of 'seventy weeks'.This means that the seventy years are the foundation of a much larger prophetic seventy weeks of years leading to the foretold Messiah.
This period would encompass all of Jewish history from 455 BCE until the Messiah arrived in the early part of the 1st century CE a grand total of 490 years.
scholar JW
sorry for the long post!.
what the watchtower society says:.
24 the book of truthful historical dates ***.
Jeffro
Post 939
No it is not meaningless at all. Jeremiah was simply prophesying about the fate of Judah and Jerusalem warning them of impending judgement lasting seventy years which was ahead of them as prophecy not history as you allege. Do you know the difference between prophecy and history? It makes sense that such prophecy was an encouragement in that the exiles would know that there was a time limit of their exile being seventy years.
Yes. Tyre's seventy years is a subset of Jeremiah's seventy years. the former ended with Babylonian domination in 539, the latter ended with the Return in 537 under a new king of Babylon with their Return.
So, what are the facts about the regnal year of ther return if you disagree with 537?
Credibility is not what I seek from this board.
scholar JW
can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?
thanks again for your answers.
zico
Jeffro
Post 944
Your chronology is influenced and tainted by apostate chronology by the Jonsson hypothesis because something rotten stinks and I can smell it all the way down here.
The evidence in the Insight book is hardly likely or probable. What facts make 538 more likely or probable than 537? What facts disprove 537? There are none and Alan F knows this and so does Jonsson because if there were then Jonsson would have discussed the matter and his sole interest in the matter was dealt in a footnote. A footnote would you believe!!! So please list your issues against 537 and Alan F can do the same. I want my list.
scholar JW
can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?
thanks again for your answers.
zico
elderwho
If you are talking about a list for the Babylonian rulers then we have big problem in trying to construct a chronology that makes any sense. The data is confusing and ambiguous with authorities giving different regnal years for the various rulers. Also, there is the twenty year gap problem which makes any reconciliation with biblical and secular chronology or the sacred versus the profane.
We have no kinglist for the Babylonians but we certainly have a king list for Israel and Judah and celebrated WT scholars have reconstructed that chronology which is far superior to any others that I have seen.
scholar JW.
