70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
alleldefsails
Post 68
Pastor Russell as guided by the 'celebrated WT scholars' of the day used the best scholarship of the day and as scholarship has progressed then adjustments to our understanding of the Bible increased. Chronology has always been a work in progress from the time of James Ussher so it is to expected that 'fine tuning' occurs. I hope this helps.
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
Mary
Post 10666
Oh Mary, Sweet Mary! You really contribute dribble. The fact is that Daniel 4 along with the entire book of Daniel is about God's Kingdom which is set against the historic intervention of Nebuchadnezzer with the typical Kingdom of Judah. He was shown the present and future reality of God's Sovereignty expressed by that Kingdom. One does not need any Bible aids to understand this theme which is easily seen from both a casual and critical reading of Daniel 4..
It is for others to judge whether Alan F or scholar has won the argument but that is not the point for scholar is not about point scoring but simply in making an apology or defence of our Bible-based chronology.
The entire chapter of Daniel 4 resonates with a lesson that Nebuchadnezzer had to learn and that is that God's Kingdom is beyond and above all other earthly kings-rulers and kingdoms and that God alone exercises complete sovereignty over mankind. That is the lesson sweet Mary, Oh Sweet Mary.
The mention of God's Kingdom which scholar has forced you to focus on is an exeghetical key to the understanding of the dream and scholar can not be accused of twisting anything for there is nothing to twist. The dream or vision is about rulership and kingdom with its surative aspect of times or as the Master described it as the Gentile Times.- Luke 21;24.
May the entertainment continue. Oh Sweet Mary!
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
Barefoot Servant
Post 68
Unfortunately, chronology and history has a certain amount of 'wiggle room' because our knowledge of these sunjects is far from perfect. In fact, scholar taught Alan F a very important lesson about chronology in fact it is CHRONOLOGY 101: Chronology is Interpretation and Methodology.. A good example of 'wiggle room' for apostate chronologists is the fact their chronology lacks precision for the begiining of the seventy years. For example, even to this day Carl Jonsson and his conspirators have not yet overcome the 'two year wiggle' between 609 and 605 BCE for a possible beginning of the seventy years.
Returning to your comments about the date 537 BCE for the Return as calculated by the 'celebrated WT scholars', the supposed date of 538 BCE is impossible for the precise Return because if the Decree was promulgated in 538 BCE then allowing for the journey, preparations and resettlement by the seventh month then it must have been in 537 BCE that the Jews returned home. This understanding of matters is supported by many other scholars and others clearly indicate that the 'wiggle room' is present for all who seek some precision on the matter. For example, in many reference works a question mark follows the listing of 537 BCE indicating some uncertainty and lack of precise historical detail. Jonsson himself expresses this uncertainty by means of a footnote relating to this matter. In short, scholar believes that 537 BCE is the most likely, possible/probable date for the Return consistent with current secular.biblical.historical evidence aviailable at this time. The clincher for such an approved methodology is the fact that the Gentile Times expired in 1914 CE based upon the scholarly determined 607-537 BCE scenario. Enjoy!
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
Mary
Post 10645
You write utter nonsense and the use of insulting language merely proves that your argument is weak and pathetic. Alan F and scholar have engaged in vigorous debate on chronology over many years and at every point scholar has answered his questions, solved his problems and refuted his apostate nonsense. The debate is matter of public record on this forum and it is for others to judge as to scholar's expertise or not.
Regarding the matter of whether the tree dream has a antypical fulfillment or not is clearly evident bythe very fact of the dream's theme and that is God's Kingdom which by very defintion was a future reality. The very mention of this Kingdom of God is of itself sufficient proof that Nebuchadnezzer's experience had far wider and greater significance and this is before one looks at the other evidences on this matter.
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
OUTLAW
Post 11463
No one has beaten scholar for he is too smart for apostates and atheists such as Alan F, scholar kicks ass when he has to.
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
Barefoot Servant
Post 66
The following scriptures explain the validity of the 537 BCE. 2 Chron. 36:22-23 explains the issuing of the Decree by Cyrus which would release the Jews this decree was promulgated in his first year. Ezra 1discusses further the Decree and chapter 2 discusses the preparations which by the time of the seventh month 537 BCe the Jews had already returned home, pleas not Ezra 3:8. From these texts one can see that there is an adequate historical basis for the Return by the seventh month 537 BCE.
In short the scriptural basis for 537 BCE is based on the last few verses of 2 Chronicles and the introductory chapters of Ezra so I have answered your question, solved your problem
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
allelsefails
Post 56
The matter is very simple clear for the entire chapter 4 of Daniel is concerned with the future Kindgom of God that as a reality was demonstrated to Nebuchadnezzer by his temporary absence from the throne for a period of seven literal years. After this lesson he confessed belief in the reality of this Kingdom and its current and future role. So, reason dictates that if the tree dream is not only about the present and the future then the dream can only be interpreted with both a literal and figurative application hence the prophecy and historical reality of the Gentile Times referred to by Jesus himeself who in his Olivet Discourse made reference to Daniel.
If you pay attention to apostate propaganda which seeks to pervert the truth of the Bible then all that you end up is weak faith, confusion and laziness as to Christian Watchfulness.
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
Mad Dawg
Post 133
Scholar is no moron. Celebrated WT scholars have proven beyond any shadow of doubt from the Bible that 607 BCE is the only date for the Fall of Jerusalem. This may disturb and upset you but scholar himeself has exained all of the evidence olver many decades and has come to the same conclusion.What about that? The matter has been well and thoroughly proven and such proof has been presented in the many publications of the WT Society for all to read, examine and study. The proof presented is irrefutable and even the most clever of apostates one Carl Jonsson failed to disprove the matter, so there!
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
Barefoot Servant
Post 65
The scriptures provide the historical facts that enable a competent scholar to calculate the precise date for the Return and this was 537 BCE which is the view of most scholars. Thus there is solid biblical and historical evidence for the date of 607 BCE beginning the definite historic period of seventy years nicely ending in 537 BCE. Therefore with all of this abundant evidence we can be confident that 1914 CE marked the end of the Gentile Times which began in 607 BCE. The evidence from all sides testifies to these facts . In fact it is demonic to ignore these facts and rely upon a chronology that proposes other false dates such as 586/587 which negate prophecy.
scholar JW
70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
AnnOMaly
My whole reason for being here is to entertain you and you alone.
scholar JW
