scholar

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Posts by scholar

• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

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  scholar

  isaac austin

  Post 1487

  You need to brush up on your comprehension skills for past and present experience has demonstrated to schola rthat apostates have poor comprehension skills. Firstly, the account in Ezra 3:8 nowhere indicates in what year of Cyrus the temple foundation was laid for the text only states that" And in the second year of their coming to the house of the true God at Jerusalem, in the second month... Secondly, just because Josephus states that the temple foundation was laid in the "second year of Cyrus" does not necessarily equate for the purpose of chronology for Josephus does not mention in what month this occurred.

  Celebrated WT scholars in dealing with the chronology of this period have determined from the Bible record that the Temple foundation was laid in the second month in the year after the Jews returned which would be 536 BCE. The attempted synchronization of Ezra 3:8 with Josephus remains a dilemna for scholars and scholar himself has an interest in this matter. Interestingly, a chart entitled Chronology -Ezra-Nehemiah on page 667, in The NIV STUDY BIBLE, 1995, Zondervan agrees with us that the Jews built the altar in the 7th month 537 BCE and began work on the Temple in the 2nd month 536 BCE.

  Alan F long ago tried to synchronize Ezra 3:8 with Josephus but scholar trounced him on it so at face value there may be some merit in the argument but the detail puts the argument aside for further research by competent scholars and scholar himself no doubt will sove the problem. One cannot base an argument on assumption as Alan F tried to do and so are you, an argument such as this must be based on what the text actually states and not the reading into the text something of an apostate agenda.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Mary

  Post 10677

  Trawling through previous Watchtower publications in order to deconstruct our position or in order to prove an apostate agenda is futile and foolishness.The overriding fact is that there are far greater imperatives for Christians and the Church and these are to Preach the Gospel and to Keep on the Watch. These two things Witnesses from early times of the last century and more have clearly done. The forementioned quotes that you have nicley reproduced show that sincerity alone has little merit but must reside in truth which cedrtainly characterizes the mission and ministry of Jehovah's Winesses both past and present.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Ann O Maly

  Post 944

  But those predicted events did come about with the outbreak of World War 1 and the ending of the Gentile Times as corroborated by the media of the day and several clergyman some years later. Thus, those Bible Students were forever vindicated for their integrity.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Mary

  Post 10673

  Thank you for reproducing the footnote but as usual you lack comprehension because you failed to understand what is stated for it clearly staes that the meaning is for the Aramaic word which is what Daniel used is 'appointed times' or time periods. later translations such as in Greek give 'years' but the Septuagint renders it as kairoi which means 'appointed times'. Later, the Latin also translates the Aramaic word as tempora which means 'yeara' or again as 'times'. Further, in proof of the fact that iddanim means 'times' is supported by the footnote in the Hermeneia commentary on Daniel by John Collins which I have referred to in a previous posting on this subject.

  Your argument that the tree dream is nothing more than a chastisement of a king overlooks the blatant fact that the entire chapter is about the Kingdom of God and Sovereignty which Nebuchadnezzer confessed as to its reality so it is not surprising when you obscure this fact then you see nothing more than a simple story.

  You also choose to ignore the lingusitic connection between iddanim and kairoi as demonstrated in the NWT footnote which clearly proves that those 'seven times' were not literal years but a period of years. In fact, Jesus as recorded at Luke 21;24 used kairos and not chronos as you falsely allege and by the use of this word and the context of Jerusalem which typified the Kinngdom of God- the theme of Daniel 4 certainly connects well exegetically with the seven 'times' of Daniel 4.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Mad Dawg

  Post 183

  You should consult Insight On The Scriptures, 1988, Vol.1.pp.568-569 under the heading 'Cyrus' Decree for the Return of the Exiles under the article entitled CYRUS for a more detailed discussion on this matter. Enjoy!

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Barefoot Servant

  Post 72

  All chronology has by its very nature 'wiggle room' because our knowledge of the past is imperfect or incomplete and there is nothing here to apologize for. But one thing for certain our chronology has no 'big wiggles' or'gaps' as the chronology accepted by apostates has. So when you have plugged the 'gaps' then you can live with the 'wiggle' as scholar in his wisdom does. He is happy with the 'wiggle' or the 'woggle'.

  Your gap or gaps is proved by the missing 'twenty years' during the reign of Nebuchadnezzer for starters and that is just the beginning because of the failure to recognize the seventy years of servitude-exile-desolation of the Jews during the period of Babylonian domination.

  You have presented nothing to prove your assertion that 538 BCE is the date for the Return. This year does not accommodate the historical reality from the time of Cyrus' Decree until the seventh month in the year of the Return. Neither does it account for the reign of Darius whereupon in Daniel 9:1, Daniel refers to a 'first year of Darius'. So, 538 BCE must be exempted because it lacks historical substance whereas 537 BCE accommodates all of the data.

  Daniel 4 is about God's Kingdom and right to rule over mankind which means sovereignty and Nebuchadnezzer confessed to this simple fact after the end of seven years of abasement. The dream has several features that prove that it has a far greater significance becaus ethat kingdom was yet to be a reality in men's affairs awaiting the arrival of Jesus Christ to be installed by God as Ruler of that Kingdom for this is proved by the prophecy in Daniel 4:17.,

  Your argument about God always ruling simply negates or buries the reality of a coming Kingdom that was prophesied to occur and really is utter nonsense. Too silly for words. You should study the subject of the kingdom more closely. If your argument is so then what is the Gospel which means good news of a furture or coming kingdom at some point in time.

  The tree dream in Daniel 4 requires and demands interpretaion for that is the reason why Nebuchadnezzer sought out Daniel to do just that interpret and as God and so it is today that this dream demands an interpretation during the 'time of the end'- Daniel 12:4.

  Yes we are entitled to our interpretation and so are you so perhaps we must agree to disagree.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Mr Majestic

  Post 852

  Don't you trouble yourself about scholar.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  isaac austin

  Post 1482

  It is you that is blind and dumb.

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  isaac austin

  Post 1490

  Those texts in Daniel 4 explicitly relate to God's Kingdom which you choose to ignore only seeing what you want to see. In fact the entire book of Daniel is about the Kingdom as shown by the frequency of the term far more than any other book in the OT.

  The Aramaic word iddanim means 'appointed times' or 'time periods' as shiown by the footnote in the NWT Reference Bible, 1984, p.1097 and this is the literal meaning of this word as shown by the footnote 29 on page 210 in the Bible commentary series Heremeneia, Daniel, by John Collins, 1993, Fortress Press.

  The cataclysmic events after 1914 certainly proved that the Gentile Times had ended by October, 1914 thus vindicating those courageous Bible Students and is equally attested by those prominent clergman who in London, England published a Manifesto whic proclaimed the fact that the Gentille Times had expired by their determination in 1917.

  Those 'ridiculous stream of false prophecies' as you put were part of the interpretation of Bible prophecy which proved that those loyal Witnesses were watchful as the Lord commanded and proclaimed the significance of those prophecies as part of the Gospel message so we can be proud of all that has been accomplished in carrying out the Lord's will. What then are you doing is more to the question? What Gospel are you preaching?

  scholar JW
• 
  421

  70 years = 607?

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  70 years of captivity?.

  i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

  that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  bennyk

  Post 429

  Your misuse of the WT quote was mischevious because you failed to recognize the honest and modest way in which it was presented. Those Bible Students acted in sincerity showing faith in the Scriptures and heeded the Lord's commands and you have not recognized that they had and continue wak in integrity. That is a challenge for you.

  scholar JW