Posts by scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

johnamos

Yes, you must improve your comprehension skills and pay close attention to the Society's reply to your letter and to my posts mon this subject.

Chronology is a complex subject and not for the faint-hearted, further, it requires the skills of an exegete as many of the relevant texts are difficult to interpret so one must consult scholarly journals and Bible commentaries.

Jer. 25:11 describes the period of Babylonian domination over Judah and the nations for seventy years concurrent with Judah being desolate for that same period of seventy years. The following verse, vs12 begins a new pericope with the judgment of Babylon the city, its King and the land which commence after the 70 years was completed which would be 537 BCE and not before such as 539 BCE.

Babylon being called to account began after the 70 years was fulfilled and not before and such accounting is descriptive of that land becoming desolate as with the other nations including Judah.

You ask 2 questions and my answers are as follows:

A.1. Babylon was a World Power for 68 years 607 BCE-539 BCE

A.2. Unknown as there is no historical information for those nations with the exception of Judah whereupon we have the 70 years of Jeremiah-servitude, exile, and desolation which ran from 607 BCE until 537 BCE and a further 10 years of vassalage to Babylon which increased the totality of servitude of Babylonian domination to 80 years to be historically accurate.

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

Vanderhoven7

That is the problem. Scholars cannot agree as to the precise calendar year for the Fall of Jerusalem whether it 586 or 587 BCE. It must be either one of these otherwise you have an imprecise methodology. Celebrated WT scholars have nailed by clearly establishing 607 BCE as the only correct and possible date. The reason for their confusion is their failure to account for the biblical 70 Years so it comes down to sloppy methodology.

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

Lee T

Congratulations on doing the course but Why did you not get your Certificate? It is a pity that you did not buy the test book because it provides a massive amount of detail of the history for that Period and so valuable to have to hand if one wished to dive into this debate. I still have my essays so I may forward them to you if I feel inclined but send me your email address anyway and I will have to sort through my files.

COJ discusses the case of the Egibi business documents in his GTR, 2004,pp.122-5 which provide no evidence of the 'twenty-year' gap between Bible Chronology and Neo-Babylonian Chronology thus far. So one must make a choice between the Biblical history of the Period and the contemporary documents of the Babylonians. What must be explained is the silence of the Babylonian records pertaining to the missing seven-year reign of Nebuchadnezzer and the omission of any mention of the seventy years hegemony over Judah and the other serving nations roundabout? Such silence or indifference hardly puts a stake through WT Bible Chronology.

I would argue that the length of the Neo-Babylonian Period is problematic and far from settled as it has not accounted for the twenty-year Gap proved by the 70 years of Babylonian domination

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

Doug

No, 537 BCE is well proven for if not then Why not? Do you have a better candidate?

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

Doug Mason

Thank you for your kind words and reference as to my character.

My qualifications for those who are interested are the following:

Bachelor of Arts- Deakin University majoring in Philosophy and Religious Studies

Bachelor of Arts- Honours, incomplete-Deakin University- Philosophical Studies

Master of Arts - University of Sydney- Studies in Religion

Now, Doug, you say that my contributions expose the weaknesses of WTS's arguments, if this is so could you be more specific and list such accordingly so that I may respond.

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

Doug Mason

The date 537 BCE has been well established and explained by the celebrated WT scholars in older and current WT publications. The key Bible references which establish the year chronologically and historically are the following: 2Chron.36:22-23; Ezra 1:1;3:1-6. Such texts provide the framework of key factors which enable one to locate such in an appropriate Calendar and equipped with the relevant facts and history one can easily demonstrate or prove that 537 BCE is the most likely or available candidate for the Return in 537 BCE.

You need to be mindful of the fact that Bible Chronology is about Methodology and interpretation within the framework of known History so do not expect something in the order of the 'Jerusalem Post' along with Photos or interviews of the Returnees dated Oct 1, 537 BCE.

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

Finkelstein

If I was a dishonest individual I would not have completed the online course 'The Rise and Fall of Jerusalem' by the Tel-Aviv University and are you willing to enroll in that course of study?

Further, my friend Doug Mason will vouch for my honesty and integrity.

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

johnamos

You have misread me. Jer. 27 addresses five nations excluding Judah whereas Jer.25 lists many more of the surrounding nations. I did not mean to say that there are only five surrounding nations in total. try to improve your comprehension skills which are lacking as shown also by your poor understanding of the Society's reply.

What you fail to realize that Jer. 25.11 is exegetically difficult and is challenging to translate into English for this is shown by comparing different Bible translations. This verse requires interpretation aided by comparing it with Daniel 9:2 and 2 Chron. 36:20-23.

The NWT with Ref. 1984 has the 'seventy years ' without a prefix, standing alone and could either be applied to 'this land' or 'these nations' or in combination of both terms. For example, note how it is rendered in The New English Bible,1970:"For seventy years this whole country shall be a scandal and a horror; these nations shall be in subjection to the king of Babylon".

The Bible in Living English by Steven Byington: "and all the country shall become a desolation, and they shall be in slavery among the nations seventy years".

A New Translation Of The Bible by James Moffat: "The whole of this country shall be a waste and a horror and for seventy years the people shall be subject to the king of Babylon". BIG problem here!!!!!! Do you get the point?

I have repeatedly told you that the 70 years does indeed represent a period of Babylonian domination in combination with an Exile to Babylon and the Desolation of the land from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE. Further, all of those surrounding nations came under Babylonian domination right up to the time of the end of the Babylonian monarchy which came to its end in 539 BCE.

The date 609 BCE is a fuzzy date in terms as to whether it properly constitutes the end of the Assyrian Empire and has nothing to do with Jeremiah's seventy years prophecy.

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

LeeT

Thank you for the catalog list of Babylonian texts. I notice that all of the regnal years for Nebuchadnezzar are now listed so with all of this information for both the reign of Nebuchadnezzar and his successors, Do any of these texts shed any light on the 70 years especially since WT critics claim the 70 years are only for Babylon and not for Judah? Further, in connection with the listings of the 43 regnal years for Nebuchadrezzar, Is there any mention of the 7 years of vacancy when neb lost the kingship according to Daniel ch.4?

scholar

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

scholar

LeeT

I wish to inform you and all other posters that scholar has done this course a couple of years ago when it was first introduced on this forum. I recommend that all critics do that course and purchase the main textbook, The Fall and Rise of Jerusalem by Obed Lipschits, 2005, Eisenbrauns.

I found the course most interesting especially the many visuals as these gave a good overview of the geopolitical reality especially during the time when Babylon came to power. What struck me was the simple fact that the seventy years could not have begun in either 606 or 609 BCE. The text book gives 586 BCE for the Fall and makes very little mention of the seventy years almost complete silence

In order to obtain a Certificate, one has to complete online quizzes and assessment, in my short essays I argued for our understanding of the 70 years and the fact that the Judah was totally desolate.

I strongly recommend that all critics of WT Chronology do this course and should a requisite for anyone who wants to say something about the Chronology of the that Period-the last days of Judah. Doug are you paying attention to this?

scholar