cha ching
The big problem for Neo-Babylonian Chronology with its dependence on numerous business tablets is that is falsified by the historic period of Jeremiah's 'seventy years'.
scholar
scholar
JoinedPosts by scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Sanchy
You should do some research into the theology of the use of kairos both in the NT and the LXX as required of any decent exegete. You can start with Kittels' TDNT.
The correct interpretation indeed is found in that same chapter and therein you have both a literal and figurative application as nicely presented in WT publications.
it is a beautiful thing to learn that both the seventy years of Jeremiah and the beginning of the Gentile Times of Dr. Luke or the Danielic's 'seven times' began in the same year , 607 BCE with the Fall of Jerusalem!!!!!
You are obsessed with eisegesis rather than exegesis so you should commit to exegesis of Dan.4 first then see if there is a proper place for eisegesis and I would sy that the latter is unnecessary.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Sanchy
Daniel's interpretation of the tree dream is recorded in the 4th chapter along with a discussion of God.s Kingdom also in that same chapter.' The use of kairos is always significant for exegesis for ignoring it leads to a false interpretation and a failure to get the correct interpretation of the seven times in Daniel and the Times of the Gentiles in Luke.
I have never said that Dan 4 is connected to the 70 years but the only thing that these two periods of time have in common is both began in 607BCE with the Fall and that is simply amazing as Jehovah God is truly the Revealer of secrets.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
MeanMrMustard
Jer,25:11 certainly refers to other nations who also are brought into servitude to Babylon but only for Judah that had to serve Babylon for a predetermined period of 70 years. After the 70 ended for Judah then as stated in vs 12 Babylon was to experience her judgement. The Babylonian rule or domination of Judah was to last for 70 years beginning in 607 BCE and ending in 537BCE.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Finkelstein
The said scholar is truly happy as he defeats the apostates single-handed.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Sanchy
Daniel's interpretation of the tree vision centres around what happened to Nebuchadnezzer and to God's rulership so both are related to each other. The elements of the dream are figurative thus requiring interpretation which takes beyond Nebuchadnezzer's experience of banishment to God's active rulership which was current then and continues right up to the present.
The expression 'times' in Daniel 4 and Luke 21:24 is exegetically significant as both texts share the same Greek word 'kairoi' which has theological significance in terms of salvation history.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Sanchy
Exegeis of Daniel 4 clearly indicate that the elements of the tree dream are figurative such as the tree, the stump with metal bands with its heart becoming human, passage of time of 7 times and the purpose of this dream was to remind peoples that God is mankind's Ruler. So the lesson applied to Nebuchadnezzer in the first instant but when one considers that right from the Introduction of the tree vision in vs.3 and to its conclusion in vs.34 it is clearly evident that God's Kingdom is thematic that the reality of God's Sovereignty is pictorially demonstrated.
Eisegesis is not necessary for the tree dream is a lesson about God's Kingdom as demonstrated by an historical episode in the reign of Nebuchadnezzer and consistent with the rest of the book of Daniel which develops that theme throughout the times.
It seems that you have a poor understanding of exegesis and eisegesis, both terms have a place in the broader subject of Hermeneutics.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
MeanMrMustard
It makes no difference as to whether Jer. 29:10 is translated 'for Babylon' or 'at Babylon' as the result is the same namely that the Jews remained in Babylon as Exiles for 70 years and the Jewish nation served Baylon for 70 years as Jeremiah had foretold exactly as the bible describes and in harmony with Josephus.
The said scholar is no troll just ask Doug Mason.
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Finkelstein
What the said scholar knows is that Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE and not 586 or 587 BCE for the latter two years are impossible. In all of the information, you have just posted one solitary fact stands out and that is that there is no mention of the 70 years of Jeremiah which falsifies all of that information. So sad! Too bad!
scholar
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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scholar
Sanchy
This is nothing but a bunch of hot air. Scholar, Daniel interpreted the dream clearly, period. The interpretation is written in the chapter. If you've not read it recently, please do so. There's nothing to suggest a second "greater" fulfillment. Nothing. To claim otherwise is in fact where your eisegesis begins. Think about it critically, it's not that hard to understand
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Indeed Daniel interpreted the dream and that interpretation benefits us today because it teaches about God's kingdom as part of salvation history. The fact that God's Kingdom is mentioned often takes us beyond the 6th century BCE as any proper exegesis would prove. Read vs, 25 and 34.
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Are you truly claiming that because the two passages share the the word "times" it must mean that they are connected? This is complete and utter nonsense and amongst the most absurd and ridiculous excuses I've heard yet regarding the subject. I wonder how many other unconnected bible passages I can claim are connected using this logic?
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Absolutely, further, these 'times' are connected to the city of Jerusalem which in both contexts represent kingship or rulership by God establishing an exegetical relationship.If you like I can refer you to what scholars have said on this matter as presented in Bible commentaries. By the way do you consult leading Bible commentaries on this subject as the said scholar does?
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Are your purposefully being this dense? Or are you just not understanding my argument? OF COURSE there is a literal application to Nebuchadnezzar. It's what I've been arguing this entire time. It's the ONLY interpretation that would result from an exegetical analysis, as per Daniel's own writing. So of course I believe that the "seven times" applies to him, as did Daniel.
You asked me if I thought the "times" meant years and I responded "likely", after which you came out with what seemed to be an argument against 7 literal years, which struck me as odd since your own religious leaders also teach that the term "times" means, in part, years. .
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Scholar is not dense. A literal interpretation is possible although the expression seven years was not used but rather seven times which means something far more significant, exegetically speaking. So in the case of Neb it refers to literal years but in reference to God it applies to a much broader period of time.
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In short, Dan4 has two fulfillments, one in the case of Neb a literal application and in the case of God a much broader application of God's Kingdom as proven by Jesus' words in Luke 21:24.For this reason many expositors have thought similarly labelling this as the Gentile times ending in 1914 CE beginning in 607 BCE according to our wondrous bible Chronology.
scholar