Posts by scholar

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

No, the 70 years ends, then Babylon is called to account. This is the order objectively, clearly stated at Jer 25:12. And that fits with 2 Chronicles. The Bible need not contradict

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True the Bible does not contradict so one's interpretation must be in harmony with not just the context, the Bible book itself and the whole Bible. The 70 years ends with the 'calling to account of Babylon' which according to Jer. 21:12 what is clearly stated in that verse was only after the 70 years was fulfilled and not before that time. When were the 70 years fulfilled? This could only be at the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE and not at the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE.

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The servitude was many nations to Babylon (v 10,11), and was already ongoing at the time of Jer 25 - see v18 "as they are today".

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The servitude to Babylon of a specific period of 70 years applied to Judah which also included other nations as stated in Jer. 25:11

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ou don't even need to get into contemporary sources. A grammatical reading of the text rules out WT chronology.

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Are you an expert in Hebrew and Bible translation?

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You concede WT chronology is incorrect. If "Babylon was already brought to account with the release of the Exiles" in 539, and Jer 25:12 states the seventy years end before the calling to account, then the 70 years ended 539 or before. But definitely not 537.

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I concede no such thing. Babylon's calling to account or judgement was not immediate but a process in time as verse 12 clearly explains culminating with its desolation of the land which did not happen in 539 BCE. A careful and not sloppy reading of that verse proves that the judgement against Babylon could only have begun after the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE.

scholar JW emeritus

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

notsurewheretogo

And still gets it wrong and shows Cognitive Dissonance.

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Unlike you, I am in control of my cognitive dissonance.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Rocketman123

This is a typical way JWs get around the 70 years of desolation, they interpret words selectively to suit themselves.

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Chronology is about Methodology and Interpretation. We have the right to interpret the Bible and you have that same right to do so so stop whining and being a 'girlie man'.

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So SA what year did Nebuchadnezzar finally invaded Jerusalem and destroy the Temple there ?

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607 BCE

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What year did Nebuchadnezzar firstly overthrow Jerusalem and take controlling power over the city and its inhabitants ?

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617 BCE

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No lies but simple facts or our wondrous Bible Chronology!!!

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jefro

You really have mastered the art of being completely and utterly wrong to the point of embarrassment. Predictably, you will try echoing the same thing, but I’m in complete agreement with the scholars you claim to respect

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I would rather base my Chronology on the Bible rather than theories and opinions of men. The Apostle Paul stated 'let God be True'- Romans 3:3,4.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Good to see correct use of punctuation this time to indicate that what follows is gibberish. Doesn't change the fact that Jeremiah 29:10-14 makes your conclusion impossible, since attention is given to their return only after 70 have ended, at which time you insist that they were already there. But you will continue to simply ignore that plain fact.

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Jer 29:10-14 is quite clear that the exiles in Babylon would return ending the 70 years. This section is a prophecy, not history. Their return would fulfil the 70 years. Plain and simple!!!

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

No, doofus. Historians date the initial exile to early 597 BCE and the destruction of Jerusalem to 587 BCE (with some Christian sources preferring 586). None of the passages mentions 70 years of exile

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Incorrect: Historians differ as to how these events are to be interpreted for some would begin the Exile with the Fall and others date the Exile 10 years earlier. What seems to be the case that historians agree that there was only one Exile proper commencing with the Fall. The word 'exile' is not mentioned in the 70 texts but the meaning or stat is well described in all of those texts

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.Jer. 25:11-12 refers to nations serving Babylon, not exile (and Jeremiah 27:8-11 specifies that serving Babylon is the way to avoid exile).

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Incorrect: Jer. 25:11 Describes a desolated land consistent with being conquered or vanquished by an invader with the deportations of its citizenry. Thus, the description is consistent with and Exile.

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er. 29:10-14 specifies that returning to Jerusalem necessarily follows the end of the 70 years

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Correct and this is what happened to the Jews exiled in Babylon who returned to their homeland in 537 BCE ending the exile as mentioned in vs.14

---2 Chron 36:20-23 stipulates that nations served Babylon until the kingdom of Persia began, not until Jews returned from exile, with the return following the end of serving Babylon (and also noting that the interpolation from Leviticus 26:34-35 is not 'the word of Jeremiah')

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The Chronicler is quite specific that the end of the 70 years and the Exile was connected to the 1st Year of Cyrus which also fulfilled the prophecy about the land having to pay off its sabbaths as foretold in Leviticus 26.

-----Dan 9:1-19 (written in the 2nd century BCE) reflects recognition of the order events of Jeremiah 29:10-14, being that 70 years would end and then attention would be given to the Jews' return

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Incorrect: Daniel was written in the 6th century and not the 2nd century as you allege. The ninth chapter consists of prayer by Daniel lamenting their exiled state and the exiles would shortly be released to return to their homeland.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Okay, let's see what Rainer Albertz has to say... Israel in Exile by Rainer Albertz, page 81:

Finally, an appeal to scholarship only after the said scholar gives you a source so why sit down and read the entire his 461 pages. LOL!! Please look at the title of the book, Rainer does not refer to Exiles- plural but Exile- singular so one Exile which he describes as a 'catastrophe'. Further, he refers to deportations but only ONE major Exile which harmonizes with the biblical texts of the 70 years and other books of the OT including Lamentations.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

Until the seventy years were "fulfilled". Until the 70 years were completed - as in the 70 years had already begun. The "servitude" spoken of by Jerimiah started before the destruction, and continued during exile, until it was finally "fulfilled". And when it was finally completed, Babylon was brought to account. That's the Biblical order. It matches history well. It doesn't match WT chronology.

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Gibberish: The 70 years was fulfilled at the ending of the 70 years marked by the return of the Jewish Exiles in 537 BCE The servitude began with the beginning of the Exile with the Jews being deported to Babylon for no other theory or viewpoint makes any sense. Babylon was already brought to account with the release of the Exiles after its Fall in 539 BCE and its eventual desolation as foretold by Jeremiah.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Phizzy

But the Land was FAR from desolate, there is evidence that groups lived in the land all through the time the of the Babylonian Exile. To live there, they had to Farm to support themselves, hardly "desolate"

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That is not what Jeremiah foretold for the land was to be without an inhabitant as also confirmed by Ezra a later historian and the historian Josephus.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

Scholar has been arguing for the WT's chronology on this site for years, probably decades. He rarely comments on any other topic.

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Correct:: decades of experience

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Given the directness of the statements at Jeremiah 25:11-12 (and others), it is granting him a lot of latitude to say he is "mistaken". More accurately, it is a delusion.

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So what is your interpretation for you cannot ignore the plain reading of the texts so delusion is in your mind.

scholar JW