Jeffro
Who cares what you ‘have in your library’. You’re still wrong.
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I care because I want to know unlike you what I am talking about
scholar JW
scholar
JoinedPosts by scholar
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Vidqun
I wish to advise you that I have the following in my theological library:
The Gentile Times Reconsidered, Carl Olaf Jonsson, Second Edition, 1986, Commentary Press
Supplement to The Gentile Times Reconsidered -Refutation of Criticism and Additional Evidence, Carl Olaf Jonsson, 1989, Odeon Books, Danville, USA
The Gentile Times Reconsidered - Chronology and Christ's Return, Carl Olaf Jonsson, Third Edition-Revised and Expanded, 1998, Commentary Press. This copy is autographed by the author.
The Gentile Times Reconsidered - Chronology and Christ's Return, Carl Olaf Jonsson, Fourth Edition Revised and Expanded, 2004, Commentary Press, Atlanta
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Vidqun
Scholar, I have comprehensive libraries at my disposal (Logos, Libronix, BibleWorks, the Online Bible, etc.). If I do not have access to an article, I have a huge University Theology library not too far away.
But coming back to the subject at hand, I am thankful that I am not trapped in JW theology anymore. In my pursuit of truth, I now I have the freedom to study all of the above articles at leisure, without the criticism or negative influence of Big brother. See footnote "Devastations vs. reproach."
Hopefully Rolf Furuli will realize that he is now free to pursue his academic interests without the shackles of the Watchtower to drag him down. For years and years he has been trapped in the Freddy Franz mindset. And as has been said repeatedly, his articles and books have been reviewed by his peers and found wanting.
It seems you have the same problem. You should try to break free. It's exhilarating, as though one is discovering a new world. The indoctrination of the Watchtower is harmful to academic research. It forces one in a specific direction and keeps one's intellectual curiosity stunted. The truth is above all of that. Why do you think they vehemently oppose tertiary education?
If you think you have the truth, put it to the test. E.g., compare Biblical chronology of the last days of Judah to Babylonian chronology. There is minor differences that has to do with the regnal and ascension years, but easily explained if you work out what system was followed. It is not necessary to discredit the scribes because you don't like the contents of their tablets. There is no reason why they should falsify the tablets. There are many reasons why the Society would like to discredit them.
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I have studied Biblical Chronology for many decades, have a large collection of books on Chronology and copies of relevant Journal articles and had to defend WT chronology against criticism of our Chronology by SDA' scholars here in Australia. It was in this country that the first critics of WT chronology emerged beginning from the fifties through to the sixties so I am well acquainted with the subject. Further, I am well acquainted with theological libraries such as the Moore College Theological library in Sydney which is adjacent to the University of Sydney -Fisher library and I used to haunt such places over many years whilst pioneering in the Eastern suburbs of Sydney.
In fact, it is I who along with an SDA scholar from the SDA Theological Seminary at Cooranbong, NSW arranged for the first translation from German into English of the VAT 4956 within international scholarship. So as with Furuli I have long demonstrated my credentials as an independent thinker and scholar.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
johnamos
[Jeremiah 27:6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 ALL THE NATIONS WILL HAVE TO SERVE him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes,]
[Jeremiah 25: 11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.12 ‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah,]
[Daniel 5:26 “This is the interpretation of the words: MEʹNE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end.]
[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 – “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]
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The fact is simply that the 70 years ended not with the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE but only with the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE with the ist year of Cyrus. as Ezra states in 2 Chron.36:22 and Daniel also in Daniel 9:1-2 describes the 70 years yet to be fulfilled post 539 BCE with Darius' first year.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
projecthydra
In his 19th year, Nebuchadnezzar burnt down Jerusalem”. According to “Dating the fall ofBabylon and Ur thanks to Astronomical Events” by Gérard Gertoux and published by Cornwell University, his 19th year was 586 B.C.E.
The seventy years [in Jeremiah 29:10 & Jeremiah 25:11] refer primarily to the time of Babylonian world dominion and not to the time of the exile, as is often carelessly supposed.” (N. Gottwald, All the Kingdoms of the Earth, New York, Evanston, London: Harper & Row, Publishers, 1964, pp. 265, 266)
“and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years”. The 70 years here and in 29: 10 refer not to the length of Judah's exile or to "Jerusalem's desolations" but to Babylon's tenure as a world power (Duhm). As far as Babylon's tenure as a world power is concerned, 70 years turned out to be a good approximation: “From the fall of Nineveh (612 B.C.) to Babylon‟s capture by Cyrus (539 B.C.) was 73 years; from the Battle of Carchemish (605 B.C.– Nebuchadrezzar‟s first year; cf. 25:1) to Babylon‟s capture by Cyrus (539 B.C.) was 66 years; and from the actual end of the Assyrian Empire (609/8 B.C.) to Babylon‟s capture by Cyrus and the return of the exiles (539 B.C.) was almost precisely 70 years.” (Vol. II, Doubleday, 2004, pp. 249, 250)
Jeremiah 29:10 – “When Babylon has completed seventy years before me. I.e., when Babylon has served Yahweh as a world power for 70 years. The specified period, which is a round number and no more, refers neither to Judah's exile in Babylon nor to Jerusalem's uninhabitation, both of which were considerably shorter (see Note for 2 5: I I)…. Jeremiah's opponents were saying that Judah's exile would be brief; Jeremiah was saying it would be long. Jeremiah, after all, during this same period was delivering oracles of judgment against Babylon (51:59-64). Calvin is impressed here that God's thoughts are not always hidden: Babylon's status as a world power, says God quite openly, will be ended after 70 years.. (Vol. II, Doubleday, 2004, pp. 353)
The Bible nowhere states that the Jewish exile lasted for 70 years. Jeremiah clearly states that the 70 years would be a period of Babylonian rule (“seventy years for Babylon”), when the nations in the Near East would “serve the king of Babylon.” (Jeremiah 29:10; 25:11) This servitude ended in 539 BCE, when the king of Babylon was punished. This would take place after the 70 years had ended. (Jeremiah 25:12The Bible quite explicitly refers to the 70 years as an Exile, a period under Babbylonish domination during which the land was desolated. These three things are simple facts all confirmed by Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezra who all explained this most significant event in OT history. Scholars even today cannot agree as to a sole interpretation of the 70 years even to its nature and chronology as shown by the sources you have quoted for it does come down to paying close attention to God's word and being faithful to it.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Jeffro
Unlike Furuli, I’ve independently arrived at the same conclusions as the best scholarship. Furuli is a pariah as far as his JW apologetics go.
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Nonsense. Furuli carried out independent research and has always shown to be an independent thinker and scholar right from the days of his first published work. Further, your claim to have arrived independently as the best scholarship amounts to the simple fact that you were either directly or indirectly influnence by Carl Jonsson's GTR. Further, the so-called best scholarship is based on 'higher criticism and lacks any consensus in matters of Chronology.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Phizzy
Whoever this deluded girl or guy "scholar" is, she/he is acting like a troll here. Many many times before have all the rubbish claims that come from "scholar" been refuted, but we have to go over the same stuff, because the motive is I reckon to confuse a J.W reading here in to thinking there is some substance to the arguments of the ironically self named "scholar".
There is not.
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Many have tried but failed for the said scholar remains unassailed or undefeated.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Jeffro
hahaha... I like the way you say "even Rolf Furuli", as if he's supposed to be a particularly credible source for such matters--
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At the very least Furuli is a scholar which you are not.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Vidqun
Here's some articles and books on the subject. The list is not up-to-date. There's many more. Compare the "Insight" articles and Furuli's books with these. Secular history and Bible history compares well with each other with few contradictions. The authors of these articles have no hidden agenda:
Since Wiseman’s complete translation of the Chronicles in 1956, many pertinent studies and reviews have appeared which deal specifically with the problems of the chronology of the last days of Judah. Among the more important, from the most recent in chronological order, are the following: A. Malamat, “The Last Years of the Kingdom of Judah” and H. Tadmor, “The Chronology of the First Temple Period,” The Age of the Monarchies: Political History (WHJP 4/1; ed. A. Malamat; Jerusalem: Massada Press, 1979) pp. 44–60; pp. 205–21; B. Oded, “The Last Days of Judah and the Destruction of Jerusalem (609–586),” Israelite and Judaean History (ed. John H. Hayes and Maxwell Miller; Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1977) pp. 469–476; A. K. Grayson, Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles; A. Malamat, “The Twilight of Judah: In the Egyptian-Babylonian Maelstrom,” VTSup 28 (1975) pp. 121–145; E. Stern, “Israel at the Close of the Period of the Monarchy: An Archaeological Survey,” BA 38 (1975) pp. 26–54; E. Kutsch, “Das Jahr der Katastrophe: 587 v. Chr.,” Bib 55 (1974) pp. 520–545; D. J. A. Clines, “The Evidence for an Autumnal New Year in Pre-Exilic Israel Reconsidered,” JBL 93 (1974) pp. 22–40; J. M. Myers, “Edom and Judah in the Sixth-Fifth Centuries b.c.,” Near Eastern Studies in Honor of William Foxwell Albright (ed. H. Goedicke; Baltimore: Johns Hopkins, 1971) pp. 377–392; K. S. Freedy and D. B. Redford, “The Dates in Ezekiel in Relation to Biblical, Babylonian, and Egyptian Sources,” JAOS 70 (1970) pp. 462–485; K. T. Anderson, “Die Chronologie der Könige von Israel und Juda,” ST 23 (1969) pp. 69–119; S. B. Frost, “The Death of Josiah: A Conspiracy of Silence,” JBL 87 (1968) pp. 369–382; A. Malamat, “The Last Kings of Judah and the Fall of Jerusalem,” IEJ 18 (1968) pp. 137–156; S. H. Horn, “Where and When was the Aramaic Saqqara Papyrus Written,” AUSS 6 (1968) pp. 29–45; “The Babylonian Chronicle and the Ancient Calendar of the Kingdom of Judah,” AUSS 5 (1967) pp. 12–27; G. Larsson, “When did the Babylonian Captivity Begin?” JTS 18 (1967) 417–423; E. R. Thiele, The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings (2d ed.; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1965) pp. 161–173; John Bright, Jeremiah (AB 21; Garden City: Doubleday, 1956) xlvi–lv; J. Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology (Princeton: Princeton University, 1964) pp. 87–92; D. N. Freedman, “Old Testament Chronology,” The Bible and the Ancient Near East (ed. G. Ernest Wright; Garden City: Doubleday, 1961) pp. 265–299; M. Noth, “Die Einnahme von Jerusalem in Jahre 597 v. Chr.,” ZDPV 74 (1968) pp. 133–157; F. Nötscher, “ ‘Neue’ babylonische Chroniken und Altes Testament,” BZ 1 (1957) pp. 110–114; E. Vogt, “Die neubabylonische Chronik über die Schlacht bie Karkemish und die Einnahme von Jerusalem,” VTSup 4 (1957) pp. 67–96; D. N. Freedman, “The Babylonian Chronicle,” BA 19 (1956) pp. 50–60; A. Malamat, “A New Record of Nebuchadrezzar’s Palestinian Campaign,” IEJ 6 (1956) pp. 246–256; J. P. Hyatt, “New Light on Nebuchadrezzar and Judean History,” JBL 75 (1956) pp. 277–284; H. Tadmor, “Chronology of the Last Kings of Judah,” JNES 15 (1956) pp. 226–230; E. R. Thiele, “New Evidence on the Chronology of the Last Kings of Judah,” BASOR 143 (1956) pp. 22–27; W. F. Albright, “The Nebuchadrezzar and Neriglissar Chronicles,” BASOR 143 (1956) pp. 28–33.
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I wish to inform you that I have all of these in my theological library with the exception of those Journal articles or publications in German. Have you read any of these publications or journal articles or are you simply 'big noting' yourself?
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Jeffro
I don't even need to respond to your other nonsense because this well demonstrates the level of your dishonesty and/or ineptitude. It is the scholarly consensus and a matter of historical fact, and not merely my 'specious claim', that Daniel was written during the Seleucid period.
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This theory that you accept is known as the Maccabean Hypothesis and is well debunked by many scholars and by WT scholars even Rolf Furuli in his latest scholarship- When Was The Book Of Daniel Written? A Philological, Linguistic, And Historical Approach, 2017, Awatu Publishers
scholar JW