Jeffro
Who cares what you ‘have in your library’. You’re still wrong.
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Having an adequate library to hand means that I can disprove your nonsense. HA HA HA
scholar JW
scholar
JoinedPosts by scholar
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Jeffro
Sounds like a decline into ‘JCanon/Larsinger’ mentality. 😒 SDA theology is equally nuts (JW’s Adventist cousins really, given their common origins) so not keeping good company even without the JW rules about ‘bad association’. Somewhat enlightening about your pathology though.
All that effort and still doggedly clinging to JW propaganda.
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SDA Theology might be nuts in part but the scholarly community are indebted to the work of Edwin Thiele the celebrated Chronologist who championed 586 BCE for the Fall and not 587 BCE.
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Tell us, oh great scholar, how attention was given to the Jews’ return after the Jews had already returned (as is required by the JW interpretation of Jeremiah 29:10-14). 🤣
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Happy to. Simple the verse explains that Jehovah would fulfil His promise for the jews to be released from their captivity and exile returning home to restore pure worship.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Jeffro
Your own comment demonstrates that the 70 years couldn’t have ended any later than 539 BCE when Babylon was ‘judged’. Also have to laugh at the tedious honorific capitalisation of pronouns
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My comment demonstrates that based on Daniel 9:1-2 and 2 Chronicles 36:22-23 that the 70 years could only have ended after the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE with the Return of the jews under Cyrus in 537 BCE.
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Nothing about Daniel 9:1-2 suggests that the 70 years were ‘yet to be fulfilled’. Especially since by that time, Babylon had already been judged and “only when the 70 years have been fulfilled would judgement against Babylon proceed”.
Daniel's words written after the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE clearly show that the 70 years had not been fulfilled or completed thus requiring some discernment on Daniel's part. LOL
Babylon's judgement as described in Jeremiah 25:12 could only have been applicable after her Fall in 539 BCE and after the fulfilment of the 70 years of Jewish Captivity or Exile.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Rocketman123
So the ending reality to what happened to Jerusalem and the surrounding area is that it was under servitude for almost 70 years by the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar but was only laid desolate for approximately 47 +/- a couple of years after he finally destroyed much of the city including the main temple in 586 BCE, captivating much of the predominant inhabitants to Babylon.
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Jerusalem and Judah were desolate for 70 years beginning in 607 BCE until the Return of the Exiles in 537 BCE as confirmed by Ezrz, Daniel, Jeremiah and Josephus.
It is simple as that!!!
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
johnamos
Well maybe you should tell Jehovah about that fact. He said that he was going to call Babylon to account WHEN THOSE 70 YEARS WERE FULFILLED...and the WTS states that happen in 539.
[Jeremiah 25: 11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.12 ‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah,]
[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 – “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]
[11-15-98 WT – We know that Jehovah is the Great Timekeeper, and we have confidence that he never fails to fulfill his purposes at his appointed time
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Indeed I have done that as you have requested by listening and reading His Word, the Bible and it tells me in Jeremiah 25:12 that only when the 70 years have been fulfilled would judgement against Babylon proceed and not before. Also. Daniel who quoted Jeremiah states in Daniel 9: 1-2 that in the first year of Darius the 70 years was yet to be fulfilled or ended and that 1 st year was after Babylon's Fall in 539 BCE. Thus there are two witnesses against your nonsense claim according to the sacred word of our great God, Jehovah.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Jeffro
Who cares what you ‘have in your library’. You’re still wrong.
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I care because I want to know unlike you what I am talking about
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Vidqun
I wish to advise you that I have the following in my theological library:
The Gentile Times Reconsidered, Carl Olaf Jonsson, Second Edition, 1986, Commentary Press
Supplement to The Gentile Times Reconsidered -Refutation of Criticism and Additional Evidence, Carl Olaf Jonsson, 1989, Odeon Books, Danville, USA
The Gentile Times Reconsidered - Chronology and Christ's Return, Carl Olaf Jonsson, Third Edition-Revised and Expanded, 1998, Commentary Press. This copy is autographed by the author.
The Gentile Times Reconsidered - Chronology and Christ's Return, Carl Olaf Jonsson, Fourth Edition Revised and Expanded, 2004, Commentary Press, Atlanta
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
Vidqun
Scholar, I have comprehensive libraries at my disposal (Logos, Libronix, BibleWorks, the Online Bible, etc.). If I do not have access to an article, I have a huge University Theology library not too far away.
But coming back to the subject at hand, I am thankful that I am not trapped in JW theology anymore. In my pursuit of truth, I now I have the freedom to study all of the above articles at leisure, without the criticism or negative influence of Big brother. See footnote "Devastations vs. reproach."
Hopefully Rolf Furuli will realize that he is now free to pursue his academic interests without the shackles of the Watchtower to drag him down. For years and years he has been trapped in the Freddy Franz mindset. And as has been said repeatedly, his articles and books have been reviewed by his peers and found wanting.
It seems you have the same problem. You should try to break free. It's exhilarating, as though one is discovering a new world. The indoctrination of the Watchtower is harmful to academic research. It forces one in a specific direction and keeps one's intellectual curiosity stunted. The truth is above all of that. Why do you think they vehemently oppose tertiary education?
If you think you have the truth, put it to the test. E.g., compare Biblical chronology of the last days of Judah to Babylonian chronology. There is minor differences that has to do with the regnal and ascension years, but easily explained if you work out what system was followed. It is not necessary to discredit the scribes because you don't like the contents of their tablets. There is no reason why they should falsify the tablets. There are many reasons why the Society would like to discredit them.
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I have studied Biblical Chronology for many decades, have a large collection of books on Chronology and copies of relevant Journal articles and had to defend WT chronology against criticism of our Chronology by SDA' scholars here in Australia. It was in this country that the first critics of WT chronology emerged beginning from the fifties through to the sixties so I am well acquainted with the subject. Further, I am well acquainted with theological libraries such as the Moore College Theological library in Sydney which is adjacent to the University of Sydney -Fisher library and I used to haunt such places over many years whilst pioneering in the Eastern suburbs of Sydney.
In fact, it is I who along with an SDA scholar from the SDA Theological Seminary at Cooranbong, NSW arranged for the first translation from German into English of the VAT 4956 within international scholarship. So as with Furuli I have long demonstrated my credentials as an independent thinker and scholar.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
johnamos
[Jeremiah 27:6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 ALL THE NATIONS WILL HAVE TO SERVE him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes,]
[Jeremiah 25: 11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.12 ‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah,]
[Daniel 5:26 “This is the interpretation of the words: MEʹNE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end.]
[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 – “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]
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The fact is simply that the 70 years ended not with the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE but only with the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE with the ist year of Cyrus. as Ezra states in 2 Chron.36:22 and Daniel also in Daniel 9:1-2 describes the 70 years yet to be fulfilled post 539 BCE with Darius' first year.
scholar JW
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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scholar
projecthydra
In his 19th year, Nebuchadnezzar burnt down Jerusalem”. According to “Dating the fall ofBabylon and Ur thanks to Astronomical Events” by Gérard Gertoux and published by Cornwell University, his 19th year was 586 B.C.E.
The seventy years [in Jeremiah 29:10 & Jeremiah 25:11] refer primarily to the time of Babylonian world dominion and not to the time of the exile, as is often carelessly supposed.” (N. Gottwald, All the Kingdoms of the Earth, New York, Evanston, London: Harper & Row, Publishers, 1964, pp. 265, 266)
“and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years”. The 70 years here and in 29: 10 refer not to the length of Judah's exile or to "Jerusalem's desolations" but to Babylon's tenure as a world power (Duhm). As far as Babylon's tenure as a world power is concerned, 70 years turned out to be a good approximation: “From the fall of Nineveh (612 B.C.) to Babylon‟s capture by Cyrus (539 B.C.) was 73 years; from the Battle of Carchemish (605 B.C.– Nebuchadrezzar‟s first year; cf. 25:1) to Babylon‟s capture by Cyrus (539 B.C.) was 66 years; and from the actual end of the Assyrian Empire (609/8 B.C.) to Babylon‟s capture by Cyrus and the return of the exiles (539 B.C.) was almost precisely 70 years.” (Vol. II, Doubleday, 2004, pp. 249, 250)
Jeremiah 29:10 – “When Babylon has completed seventy years before me. I.e., when Babylon has served Yahweh as a world power for 70 years. The specified period, which is a round number and no more, refers neither to Judah's exile in Babylon nor to Jerusalem's uninhabitation, both of which were considerably shorter (see Note for 2 5: I I)…. Jeremiah's opponents were saying that Judah's exile would be brief; Jeremiah was saying it would be long. Jeremiah, after all, during this same period was delivering oracles of judgment against Babylon (51:59-64). Calvin is impressed here that God's thoughts are not always hidden: Babylon's status as a world power, says God quite openly, will be ended after 70 years.. (Vol. II, Doubleday, 2004, pp. 353)
The Bible nowhere states that the Jewish exile lasted for 70 years. Jeremiah clearly states that the 70 years would be a period of Babylonian rule (“seventy years for Babylon”), when the nations in the Near East would “serve the king of Babylon.” (Jeremiah 29:10; 25:11) This servitude ended in 539 BCE, when the king of Babylon was punished. This would take place after the 70 years had ended. (Jeremiah 25:12The Bible quite explicitly refers to the 70 years as an Exile, a period under Babbylonish domination during which the land was desolated. These three things are simple facts all confirmed by Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezra who all explained this most significant event in OT history. Scholars even today cannot agree as to a sole interpretation of the 70 years even to its nature and chronology as shown by the sources you have quoted for it does come down to paying close attention to God's word and being faithful to it.
scholar JW