scholar

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Posts by scholar

• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Huh?! Have you totally lost the plot? Your claim isn’t at all supported by ‘my reasoning’. The opening words of Daniel identity a setting, but there’s nothing about the statement that confirms when it was actually written. You don’t understand that a later writer could have access to historical details of an earlier period? What is wrong with you?

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  The opening words of Daniel sets the historical setting for the book which along with the other dates given are of historical events not in the 2nd century but in the sixth century.

  There is not a single shred of evidence that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC but is simply a theory cleverly designed to discredit prophecy. The six datable events anchor the entire book in the 6th century BC for any other claim is simply nonsense.

  scholar JW
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  And the author of Moby Dick is identified as Ishmael in the opening sentence. Guess that clinches it. 😂 Also, by your ‘reasoning’ the author of Daniel chapter 4 is “clearly” Nebuchadnezzar, not Daniel. 🤦‍♂️

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  By your reasoning the opening words o Dan 1:1 clearly identify a 6th century BC historical setting as does Dan 7:1; 8:1;9:1; 10:1; 11:1; which all of those texts proves beyond any shadow of doubt that this is a book of the 6th century dealing with rulers of the NB and Persian Periods.thus debunking the Maccabean Thesis.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  How then can it be verified then that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC and who its writer was especially as Dan.1::1 clearly assigns a 6th-century date for its composition and Dan.12:4 clearly states its writer, Daniel? and how can it be verified that the book ha in its 12 chapters in total has anything to do with Jewish persecution and events in the time of the Maccabees?

  scholar JW
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  The story about Nebuchadnezzar going mad borrows elements from a Babylonian story of Nabonidus. But the reference to ‘seven times’ is likely also a reference to the ‘seven sabbaths’ (49 years) from Jerusalem’s destruction in 587 BCE until the Jews returned in 538 BCE. In the context of Daniel’s main theme, that period of Jewish oppression and restoration is analogous to the ban of Jewish worship in 168 BCE until its restoration in 165 BCE.

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  If Neb's madness was not an actual event being simply a story then why was such a myth placed into a historical period pertaining to Jewish oppression?

  What then is the book of Daniel's main theme?

  If Daniel was not a prophet and Daniel was simply a historical account of Jewish oppression of the 2nd century then why did Jesus refer to Daniel as a prophet and make reference to a future fulfilment as prophecy pertaining to Jerusalem?

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Nope. Despite your attempt at ad hominem, direct analysis of Daniel confirms that it refers to rulers from the neo-Babylonian period up until the Seleucid period with special focus on Antiochus IV Epiphanes’ ban of Jewish worship from 168-165 BCE. Knowledge of or deference to Porphyry is not required.

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  What then is this direct analysis that you refer that confirms ruler from the NB Period up until the Seleucid Period?

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  “Maccabean hypothesis” is a nonsense term employed by Christian denominations that insist that Daniel is talking about Jesus. The mentality is similar to insisting that evolution is ‘just a theory’ or the term ‘allopathic medicine’ used by woo peddlers to dismissively refer to standard medical practices.

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  The Maccabean Thesis is simply that , with no firm evidence to support such a wild hypothesis for it originates with Porphyry, a critic of Christianity in the third century. Until 1890, the prevailing view amongst scholars was the acceptance of the 6th century as the period when the book was written. After 1890, there was a revival of Prophry and his theis has become the general view amongst scholars despite much evidence to the contrary.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  It’s not the “ Maccabean hypothesis”, it’s just the actual basis.

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  Not so as it can be properly termed the 'Maccabean Thesis' or as the said scholar terms it as the 'Maccabean Hypothesis'. Your actual basis is actually your opinion.

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  Haha. Of course it’s not historical. There isn’t even a suitable seven-year period in Nebuchadnezzar’s reign for it to have happened. But let the apologist movement spill forth (already attempting to water down to ‘a period of time’)... 😂 Can’t guarantee I’ll bother responding to your nonsense further though.

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  So if the tree dream in Dan.4 is not historical and if it the book of Daniel is of the 2nd century BC presented as history then why was such such a tree dream included in the book?

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Wrong again. I didn’t quote Wikipedia on this thread. I did provide one citation to a Wikipedia article for more information about the 1917 Watch Tower Society presidency dispute, but did not quote from that article either. It seems your are even more easily confused than I thought. But even if I had quoted Wikipedia on a different subject, it wouldn’t change the fact that God establishing a future kingdom is in fact not the ‘main theme’ of Daniel. It is entirely mundane that God’s kingdom is a theme in Daniel, with the obvious Jewish view that their own deity is ‘sovereign’, and with its 2 brief references to exaggerated claims about the Jews’ anticipated salvation after a period of oppression. None of it has anything to do with JWs entirely incorrect chronology of the Neo-Babylonian period or 1914.

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  The simple fact of the matter is that you saw fit to cite a Wikipedia article in support of your argument in relation to the 1917 WT presidency debate so if it was good enough then it is good enough for another poster on another issue to cite or quote Wikipedia to in support of his argument.

  As you are an advocate of the Maccabean hypothesis in relation to the timing of Daniel then perhaps you can enlighten us as to whether Neb's tree dream was a real historical event and that Neb was vacant from the throne for a period of time?

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  The book of Daniel is all about the period immediately before it was written in the 2nd century BCE. Specifically religious oppression under Antiochus IV Epiphanes with reference to Babylon as a metaphor. It also includes exaggerated end times claims typical of the apocalyptic genre. The inherent Jewish bias that their god was (already) sovereign is unsurprising.

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  Absolute rubbish! I see that the previous poster quotes from a Wikipedia source showing that the book of Daniel is about God's Kingdom which nicely agrees with the source I cited that you ignored but when it suits your argument you are quite happy to quote Wikipedia in a post referring to the history of the Bible Students.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  The fact that you think I lose in this instance is funny enough but the fact that you think it’s ‘once again’ is priceless.

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  I think anything you say is priceless along with your notorious pretty charts

  scholar JW