Posts by scholar

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

It’s funny how the threshold for evidence that JWs (and many other religious people) expect from others is a lot higher than for the ‘evidence’ they accept for their own dogmatic superstitions. 🤣

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Am I hearing a plea for ignorance? That you have nothing to say and you talk about a threshold when even in your case you do not even have that for even celebrated WTscholars have a threshold.

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Note also how the apologist attempts to minimise the mainstream scholarly position that Daniel was written in the second century BCE as merely ‘my belief’.

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Not how you refuse to defend your own opinion but simply rely on other scholars to do that for you just as you have done with the nonsense on your website.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Hahahaha. No. Everything in Daniel 11 and12 can be readily associated with events up until the Seleucid period (apart from the exaggerated claims about a hypothetical future that aren’t real at all). It has nothing at all to do with “our day”. Good luck proving otherwise. 😂

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Hahaha. No. Only a portion of Dan 11 pertains to the Seleucids the rest of Daniel had a fulfilment in his day right through to the present as proved in -Dan1-11:4 -Dan11 11:20-12:13. Good luck and I wish you every success as you vainly attempt to prove otherwise.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

This is some of the most plainly stupid reasoning you could utter. I could write something right now that makes reference to past events and no current events, and by your reasoning, it would have to be concluded that it was written at the time of the events mentioned.

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This is the case because Daniel contains chronological data which fixes the time of composition as shown by the 6 references.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

You already answered your own question. 😂 “Daniel [refers] to the Seleucids … with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19”

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Nice try but such reasoning does not get you off the hook for Dan. 11 refers to future events involving a future battle between two kings- north and south which in verses 5-19 applies to the Seleucid period. The rest of Daniel refers to historical events in the 6th century continuing right up to our day.

The challenge for you is show evidence that all of Daniel, the entire 12 chapters refers or was written in the 2nd century.

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Also, the page you reference acknowledges that some parts of Daniel include elements from older folktales.

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Opinion, not fact!

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Whilst all the chapters of Daniel allude to the Syrian oppression under Antiochus IV Epiphanes with Babylon used as an allegory, chapters 2 and 7 to 12 make obvious references to rulers up to the Seleucid period.

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Prove it!

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The sad fact is that you actually agree that there are references to the Seleucid period (and, erroneously, beyond) throughout Daniel, but your ‘explanation’ is that Daniel was magical.

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WT publications since 1958 have always maintained that a small section of Daniel namely ch.11 describes the Seleucid Period as history by means of prophecy.

Your opinion and interpretation' is 'magical' or illusional

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

ozziepost

Very good morning to you!

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

ozziepost

Now that you are a converted Anglican thus enjoying the rich fruitage of Bible knowledge and learning characteristic of the intellectual life within the Anglican diocese of Sydney or North Sydney could you give your learned opinion on the date of composition of the book of Daniel? Please!

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

I note your reference to your website and the pages discussing Daniel however you make the claim that Daniel is of the 2nd century BC rather than of the sixth century century but you do not provide any evidence for your late date of composition so please list your facts.keeping in mind that that Daniel in his 11th chapter only is applicable to the Seleucids.

I await your evidence or proof.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

Identifying datable events in a work only confirms that the work was written some time later than those events. And because Daniel has obvious references to events during the Seleucid period (as is explicitly accepted in JW dogma), the time of writing is thereby identified as being around 164 BCE. Setting aside the exaggerated end times claims about a hypothetical future, there are no details in Daniel requiring knowledge beyond around 164 BCE. (Daniel was in circulation by the end of that century so writing couldn’t have been much later than 164 BCE either.)

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False. Identifiable datable events confirm the date of composition unless plainly stated otherwise for that then becomes history. The book of Daniel does not in its entirety suggest events of the Seleucid period therefore in such absence of datable ents then the evidence as presented by the six datable events prove a 6th-century composition as confirmed by other external lines of evidence.

The only section in Daniel that is interpreted to refer to the Seleucids is with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19 .

Please provide direct evidence for your belief that the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC!

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

Huh?! Have you totally lost the plot? Your claim isn’t at all supported by ‘my reasoning’. The opening words of Daniel identity a setting, but there’s nothing about the statement that confirms when it was actually written. You don’t understand that a later writer could have access to historical details of an earlier period? What is wrong with you?

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The opening words of Daniel sets the historical setting for the book which along with the other dates given are of historical events not in the 2nd century but in the sixth century.

There is not a single shred of evidence that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC but is simply a theory cleverly designed to discredit prophecy. The six datable events anchor the entire book in the 6th century BC for any other claim is simply nonsense.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

And the author of Moby Dick is identified as Ishmael in the opening sentence. Guess that clinches it. 😂 Also, by your ‘reasoning’ the author of Daniel chapter 4 is “clearly” Nebuchadnezzar, not Daniel. 🤦‍♂️

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By your reasoning the opening words o Dan 1:1 clearly identify a 6th century BC historical setting as does Dan 7:1; 8:1;9:1; 10:1; 11:1; which all of those texts proves beyond any shadow of doubt that this is a book of the 6th century dealing with rulers of the NB and Persian Periods.thus debunking the Maccabean Thesis.

scholar JW