Posts by scholar

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Vanderhoven7

"Can a person be a Christian if he or she doesn't believe that the events purported by Watchtower to have taken place on these three dates actually happened?

In other words does one have to believe in 1914, 1918, and 1919 to be a Christian?"

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The answer is NO. Such parabolc interpretations and others are not considered to be primary doctrine - not essential for sakvation.

However, such interpretations are helpful and beneficial for one's faith, especially in establishing the identity of the true and only eschatological Church which alone is doing the Lord's work today by preaching the Gospel.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Beth Sarim

Faithful and Discreet Slave is nothing but a 'hijacked parable' by the WT Society to fit their own agenda.

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It is all about the interpretation of two parables. Nothing more or less

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

So… not 1799, 1874 and 1878 😂 Or whatever future dates are selected that are just as ‘established’ 🤦‍♂️

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Sadly the above dates cannot be considered to be eschatological in nature for eschatology proper can only be realized with the advent of 1914 CE with the birth of God's Kingdom.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Those who are interested in Eschatology should read A New Testament Biblical Theology -The Unfolding Of The Old Testament In The New by G. K.Beale, 2011, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1047 pp. Wherein the author refers to an inaugurated eschatology which is nicely compatible with such inauguration of God's Kingdom in 1914 CE.

scholarJW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Vanderhoven 7

I could accept your first paragraph with the following correction

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Scholar is pleased with this comment..

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~~beginning in 1914 CE with the birth of God's Kingdom and the Parousia~~

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Parables by their very nature require interpretation so we interpret the parables in accordance with their context which context is plainly 'eschatological' i.e pertaining to the 'Last Days' or the Parousia which the biblical evidence proves its beginning in the celebrated year of 1914 CE a date validated by Bible Chronology and Modern History.

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1914, 1918, 1919 1922, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1928, 1929, 1975 all mythologically manufactured bogus dates with no evident biblical significance..

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The said scholar has nicely termed the three most significant prophetic dates in the Bible: 1914, 1918, and 1919 as an eschatological triennium. These dates are well established by means of Bible Chronology, Biblical Theology, Modern SecularHistory and the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses as Proclaimers of God's Kingdom as shown and separately listed as such in WT Indexes for your perusal. So get cracking!!!! Scholar gets the whip out.

scholar JW emeritus

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

The 'faithful and discreet slave' or steward described in Matthew 24:45-46 and Luke 12: 41-48 are both parables which describe not only Christians as individuals being faithful to the Master's commands in being diligent in carrying reponsibilities of discipleship and to heed the exhortation to 'Keep on the Watch!' but also as a collective - the true Chuch of anointed Christians. The contrext of these parables is eschatological which pertains to events beginning in 1914 CE with the birth of Goid's Kingdom and the Parousia.

Further, these two parables are characteristic of what some theologians have coined 'eschatological wisdom' - or because of the didactic character of these parables as representing a 'prophetic pronouncement of wisdom'. Thus the true eschatological Church as described in the book of Revelation comprised of its leadership as its base or core and community work together unitedly to promote true wisdom - Bible education by means of worldwide evangelism unparalled in all of human history in harmony with the parabolic nature of these two parables.

An 'eschatological triennium' consisting of such dates as 1914, 1918 and 1919 describe the modern history of Jehovah's Witnesses in keeping with the fulfilment of prophecy. The two parables require interpretation as with all the other parables which refer to God's Kingdom. Sound principles of both exegesis and eisegesis combine together to show how the 'faihful slave is visible in their conduct and ministry, being faithful to the Bible in fulfilment of these two prophetic parables or 'prophetic pronouncements of wisdom'.

scholar JW emeritus

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

Hypocrite 😂

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No, it is called scholarship at its very best. Something you need to heed!!!!

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

For most practical purposes this isn’t so important. But when dealing with dishonest people like ‘scholar’ who will try to convince other readers that the actual year for the destruction of Jerusalem is imprecise, the fact that the Bible identifies a specific year is significant. Decision table analysis rules out 586. However, various sources still say 586 due to a) misunderstanding the relevant dating systems or b) repeating the traditional dating without making any analysis at all. Additionally, some sources simply use the notation ‘587/586’ because Nisan-based dating spans part of both years, even though the relevant events occurred in 587.

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It is a bit like this Jeffro that when a JW critic is critical and very dogmatic that 607 BCE is incorrect then a WT apologist can legitimately as the question if 607 BCE is incorrect for the fall then what date is correct? Now if the response does not give a definitive date then how does a reasonable person conclude that the date 607 BCE is wrong.. So, the onus is on you and fellow critics to come up with a definitive date as either 588, 587 or 586 BCE. Now if that can not be done then there remains a problem with the METHODOLOGY. So get your side right before being critical of another position.

You are simply relying on the Decision Tables analysis proposed by Rodger Young and in that very same article, he raises the issue of METHODOLOGY and his analysis is merely a fabrication and it stinks.

Now you say that scholars who prefer 586 have some sort of misunderstanding about the dating system but such scholars would argue that it is the proponents of 586 that have got it wrong. Further, there are scholars who sit on the fence by arguing for 586/587 but this is still imprecise whereas the 'celebrated' WT scholars have long held to the precise date of 607 BCE based on a simple METHODOLOGY and Biblical Interpretation.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Disillusioned JW

It looks like the first siege on Jerusalem might have been in 597 BCE instead of 605 BCE, though the battle at Carchemish was in 605 BCE. See https://www.britannica.com/biography/Nebuchadnezzar-II . That article does also say the following, however. "On expeditions in Syria and Palestine from June to December of 604, Nebuchadnezzar received the submission of local states, including Judah, and captured the city of Ashkelon." But note though that https://www.rationalchristianity.net/jeremiah.html says the following.

"605 First attack of Nebuchadnezzar on Jerusalem (2 Ki 24:1-2)

597 Reign of Jehoiachin (3 months) (2 Ki 24:8-17, 25:27-30, 2 Chr 36:9-10)

597 Second attack of Nebuchadnezzar on Jerusalem (2 Ki 24:8-17)

597-586 Reign of Zedekiah (2 Ki 24:17-25:7, 2 Chr 36:10-20)

586 Third attack on Jerusalem; Jerusalem destroyed (2 Ki 25:1-21)"

2 Kings 24:1-2 (1984 NWT) says Jehoiakim became the "servant" of "Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon", but that after three years Jehoiakim rebelled and that as a result "Jehovah began to send against" Jehoiakim "marauder bands of Chaldeans" and others, and "against Judah to destroy it".

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There is no evidence that Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem in 605 BCE or at that time so remember that accurate chronology is based on accurate history so if the history is sloppy then the chronology is also sloppy. I recommend that you read the published research by WT scholars so as to get a better understanding of Neb's reign and that of the kings for that period.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Jeffro

t’s good that you’re researching but it sounds like your opinion is very easily swayed. In general, I would not be so hasty to prefer what is stated in Christian commentaries about the period (because they tend to cling to traditions, such as the outdated and incorrect belief that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 rather than 587 BCE), though they shouldn’t be dismissed entirely.

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Perhaps you learn from DJW's example and read and consult more widely taking notice of what is published in the scholarly literature and Bible commentaries instead of relying on your own mixed-up opinions. You will thus be informed that scholars since the time of Edwin Thiele advocate 586 rather than 587 BCE.

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Consistent with what is stated in Daniel, 2 Kings and Jeremiah, BM 21946 confirms that Nebuchadnezzar led a campaign through the Hatti region (including Judea) in his accession year and comparison with the Bible suggests that whilst Nebuchadnezzar may have intended to besiege Jerusalem then, Jehoiakim averted the siege by paying tribute. However, the Babylonian chronicle indicates that this was in January-February of 604 rather than on his return from Egypt in the summer of 605 (when he was going home to claim the throne). Jehoiakim’s capitulation begins the 3 full years of him paying tribute to Nebuchadnezzar, but he refused to pay after Egypt defeated Babylon in a battle in 601. Various marauders were subsequently sent against Jerusalem while Nebuchadnezzar regrouped his army, and then besieged Jerusalem in 597 BCE.

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My issue herein is that based on Daniel. 2 Kings, Jeremiah that your dating is in error and should be corrected or fine-tuned to 617 BCE rather than 597 BCE with the added historical correction of Jehoiakim's reign and Neb's reign in terms of Jehoiakim's vassalage to Nebuchadnezzer in his 3rd year otherwise you muck up the history and the chronology for that period. Sloppy history makes for a sloppy chronology.

scholar JW