Posts by scholar

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

This is the level of ‘rigour’ I’ve come to expect from ‘scholar’. A good old ‘bait and switch’. The fact that the Jews were exiled at all is uncontested, and you are an academically dishonest fool for trying to conflate the fact that it happened with an unsupported duration. 🤦‍♂️ The Bible never mentions a 70 year exile.

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Absolute nonsense. Scholars do accept the reality of the Jewish Exile which is usually believed to be that biblical period of 70 years but there are others and in particular, Carl Jonsson and others of his ilk, who in his thesis omits any mention or reference to that Exile which absence demolishes his thesis. The academic rigour of which Jeffro knows nought demands the recognition of the Jewish Exile in compiling a history of the Late Judean period and any scheme of chronology related to that period.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Wrong. 'scholar' attempts to reduce the evidence to merely 'Jonsson's thesis', but all of the scholarly consensus and my own independent analysis agrees with the very well established history of the Neo-Babylonian period.

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Wrong, it is Jonsson's thesis but it is a thesis that has ensnared current biblical scholarship originating with SDA'scholars/clergy in Australia from the early fifties. The so-called 'well-established history of the NP Period is bunkum as it fails to account for Neb's subjugation of Judah during his reign of over 40 years, the Jewish Exile, and Neb's seven-year vacancy from his throne. Big problems with NB history and its chronology.

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Wrong. The Bible doesn't even mention 70 years of exile.

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Nope. The Bible describes in detail by means of history and prophecy of the Jewish Exile which the major Exilic scholar -Rainer Albertz describes it as' catastrophic'. Further, Lamentations in the OT describes it also in great detail.

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Wrong. The 70 years ended in 539 BCE when Babylon was conquered by Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:20), and the Jews who returned to build the temple foundations arrived there in 538 BCE

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False. The 70 years could only have ended in 537 BCE with the Return of the Exiles for in 539 BCE the Jews were still captive to Babylon and were in Babylon. Plain and simple. The end of the 70 years is confirmed by Cyrus as ending by means of the his Decree and not the fall of Babylon as in 2 Chronicles 36, Ezra 1.

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Dealing with jeffro is like shooting ducks in a pond. Boom1 Boom1 Boom!

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jefffro

Dismissively referring to ‘pretty charts’ because he can’t actually identify specific errors. 🤦‍♂️ Not that I think it’s not possible there are errors, but all JW nutters can point to is their nutty dogma and not what the Bible actually says.

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Your 'pretty coloured' charts are falsified by the 'seventy years' of Jeremiah based solely on your interpretation of that period of important Biblical history- Jewish Exile. Plain and simple! Nothing else needs to be said.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Fisherman

The FDS shoe only fits the JW. It is obviously not Christendom as I showed in another thread was utterly defeated circa 1919 in their attempts to stop the JW movemen

Absolutely correct for the shoe fits perfectly.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

The one with the pretty charts.

There is something ‘solid’ that the JW 1914 doctrine could be said to be based on 💩 , but it’s not ‘exegesis’. 😂

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Let me assure you that it is rock-solid exegesis confirmed by the facts of modern history.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Ding

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered by Carl Olaf Jonsson demolishes the 607 BCE date for the fall of Jerusalem and with it the 1914 calculations.

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Jonsson's thesis fails because it misinterprets the 'seventy years of Jeremiah' and of the historical fact of the Jewish Exile which lasted for 70 years-ended in 537 BCE, therefore, it must have begun in 607 BCE. QED

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Vanderhoven7

Solid exegesis would exclude assumptions and speculation and easily convince Bible Scholars of the exegetical soundness of Watchtower methodology and conclusions

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Absolutely so many beginning Bible Students find that is most certainly true as they study WT publications along with their copy of the Bible.

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How many non-JW Bible scholars do you know that are convinced from the scriptures that Christ's parousia occurred in October 1914?

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Rolf Furuli would now be considered to be in such a camp.

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Can you run the solid exegesis by me so I can see for myself that 1914 is not established by absolute Bunkum eisegesis.?

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No problem. You need to focus on Daniel 4 and Luke 21 for both discuss the Gentile Times or the 'appointed times of the nations.

Next, you could use the WT Index for further information.

Further, you could consult various Bible commentaries to evaluate your conclusions.

If you need further assistance then scholar is available to help for scholar likes to help the 'litt;e people or ones'.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Vanderhoven7

My take is that all three dates are based on eisegesis and that Jehovah's Witnesses would not baptize anyone who does not tow the line completely. Why baptize someone who you would later disfellowship for expressing disagreement on any officially marked dates or doctrines?

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Absolute Bunkum! The date 1914 CE is based on solid exegesis whereas 1918 and 1919 are based on careful eisegesis all three main prophetic dates form an eschatological triennium.

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Now none of these dates were criteria for Christian baptism before the twentieth century...so why is believing in these dates so critical now if one can be a true Christian while rejecting all three?

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True, it was not until the latter part of the 19th century and the early part of the next century that the 'Revealer of Secrets', Jehovah God revealed the understanding and timing of such events in association with the Kingdom of God and the birth of the new nation in the context of Eschatology and its inauguration. Thus true Christians are now properly identified in relation to the fulfillment of God's purpose respecting HIs True Church- a modern eschatological Church furthering the interests of that Kingdom from 1914 CE and carrying out the Master's command to make preach, teach and make disciples along with Christian baptism.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Vanderhoven7

I want to know if, in your opinion, your organization would baptize Christians who don't believe in 1914, 1918 and 1919? Yes or no.... and why or why not, will do.

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My opinion is that such a baptismal candidate certainly in the case of 1914 would not be eligible as a candidate for Christian baptism for the reason that 1914 is a more rigorous Bible teaching being exegetically based whereas 1918 and 1919 are based more on eisegesis.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Linda 14

In the interim, I will make a brief comment on your first question.

Luke 21:

However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, 22 because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled"

From that context, how does Jerusalem come to represent seat of davidic line of rulers? Is the context not clearly referring to literal Jerusalem?

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Luke 21:24 contains three major elements that require careful exegesis:

1. Jerusalem - typical or antitypical used by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse

2. What does the word 'trampled on' mean and how and when does it apply?

3. What then is the significance of 'appointed times of the nations' how and when does this apply?

Food for thought until next week.

scholar JW