if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
W don't talk like that. So I think you are not a JW. One more reason to stop the conversation.
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This is a robust conversation but you are most wise to stop the conversation. I have to reply to many responses so I simply missed your original post but as you indicate your lack of participation then I will not respond to that inquiry. All the best!!!
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
So called "scholar", my reply was very short. The fact that you missed this important detail in my very short reply tells volumes. I also provided several clear contradictions like the 69.5 years vs 70.5 years in one of my previous posts. I'd have expected a reply about this but there was only silence Therefore I'll end my conversation.
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If you cannot take the heat then get out of the kitchen.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
More dishonest misdirection from the inept self-styled ‘scholar’ 😂. Zechariah’s 70 years is a clearly defined period that had not yet ended in 519 but had ended by the 9th month of 518 BCE, marking exactly 70 years of fasting since Jerusalem’s destruction in 587 BCE. Poor ‘scholar’ can’t handle the elegant simplicity and therefore tries to claim some ambiguous range of dates. 🤦♂️
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In short. what your interpretation means is that the 70 years of Zechariah was a period of 'fastings' only and is a separate period to that of Jeremiah's 70 years both separate periods have different beginnings and endings and run parallel to each other in the course of Jewish history. This is a nonsensical proposition that requires clear evidence from the biblical text but from other sources. T
Further, the two Zechariah's 70-year references deal with a singular past event characteristic of the Hewish exilic experience and not that of the Temple or its rebuilding.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
Carl Jonsson in his exposition of the two Zechariah texts sums up his position and no doubt of Jeffro as follows:
"(6) Zechariah 1:7-12 and 7:1-5 are not references to Jeremiah's prophecy, but refer to the period from the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in the years 589-587 to the rebuilding of the temple in the years 520-515 BCE" (op. cit. p.230) Talk about messed up!!!!
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
Of course it's in the past. 70 years just passed. When your kid comes home and you say "where have you been these two hours", it's also a past event.-
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Glad to know that you accept that Zechariah's two references to the 70 years were a past event or more precisely a completed past event that ended with the Exile and not an event that continues to the rebuilding of the Temple. which cannot be figured precisely as to the ending of Zechariah's 70 years claimed to be from 587-520-515 BCE.Go figure!
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
Wrong as usual. I’ve told you to stop telling that lie.
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Prove me wrong. List your argument for both texts and I will compare that with Jonsson's interpretation.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
Always a red flag when the NWT uniquely renders something ‘more correctly’ (aka sectarian bias). 😂
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When a different and more accurate translation is used, a red flag is certainly raised when complains about the scholarship.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Jeffro
’ve provided sufficient details already for honest readers to make up their minds about who has ‘lost the argument’. After that, all that remains is to remind you that you’re thoroughly deluded. Maybe go and actually pay attention to what is written in some of those sources that you pretend to respect. 😂
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You have lost the argument when your only reply is that of ridicule and insults. Further, you provide no evidence for your interpretation which is simply borrowed from that of Carl Jonssons The Gentile Times Reconsidered, Fourth Edition, 2021, Friesen Press, pp.225-229. and that of his previous editions.
scholar JW
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Bruce X
The New Living Translation shows the meaning of Zech 1:12 very clearly for those who have difficulties to understand this verse:
"Upon hearing this, the angel of the LORD prayed this prayer: “O LORD of Heaven’s Armies, for seventy years now you have been angry with Jerusalem and the towns of Judah. How long until you again show mercy to them?”"
The angel asked this two decades after they left Babylon why they are still not being shown mercy. So for the last 70 years until now (20 years after exile) they have not been shown mercy. If they were really 70 years in exile then this would mean 90 years no mercy. This is another hint why they can't have been 70 years in exile
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The NWT renders this verse more correctly; "So the angel of Jehovah answered and said:"O Jehovah of armies , how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years". (emphasis added) Thus the text into English shows that the seventy years was a past event and not a present event awaiting an end. The text and its context along with Zech 7:5 clearly shows a reminder of a past event of the exilic 70 years as agreed by many scholars and commentators.
scholar JW
