Posts by scholar

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

Got you, so you can't explain it. And certain NWT verses like "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" and Ezra where it shows that the trip back was about 4 months can be ignored.

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You certainly got me big time for I did not see such deep and meaningful question coming. Just shows how dumb and foolish scholar is. I will, give him a good spanking.

Whatever the length of the journey is unknown and unknowable and really does not matter that the fact of the matter is that the Exiles returned in 537 BCE thus fulfilling the 70 years right on time according to Jehovah's Timetable.

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You say that the 70 years were over on the day the exiles arrived at home. What does Jeremiah 29:10 say next in this verse after those 70 years were over, i.e. once the exiles arrived at home?

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It simply means that at the fulfilment of the 70 years at, in or for Babylon the Exiles would be back home right on time in 537 BCE by the seventh month. Simple , you got it?

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Nope. Yet another lie from the non-scholar. 4 months fits perfectly for the journey, though up to 6 months is possible depending on how early the 'decree' was made.

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Nope The following factors mitigate against the Return of the Exiles in 538 BCE;

1. Chronology of Darius the Mede

2.. Timing of the Decree ?

3. Proclamation of the Decree throughout Empire

4. Preparations by the Exiles prior to their Journey

5. Return trip home- route and time of Journey?

6. Resettlement home in their cities ?

7.. Timing of Altar Inauguration - Cyrus. 1st to 2nd year?

8. Calendrical reckoning used by Ezra?

Thus, any chronology for the Return must fully account for these factors and shows that to cram all of these in one year - 538 BCE is impossible but the following year- 537 BCE makes the impossible now possible and highly probable.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

So seventh month of 607 BCE + 70 years in Babylon + 6 months round trip, in which year and month did they return when you add this up? Definitely not the month of Tishri in 537 BCE.-

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We can only what the biblical texts in relation to the 70 years state and that is that the full number of 70 years had to fulfil which included the land keeping its sabbaths. The Exiles arrived home to their cities before the end of the seventy years which was the beginning of the seventh month,-Ezra 2:70 ,Tishri 537 BCE and that occasion was marked by the building of the altar-Ezra 3:3 Thus the Exiles had returned home and the 70 years was fulfilled right on time to the very month or day. Jehovah God is the Great Timekeeper he ensured that his Word was completely fulfilled from his standpoint and not from a human standpoint .

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

'm trying to find common ground with "scholar" on a lower bound for the round trip. Upper bound, who know

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Unfortunately, it is a floating common ground.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Ok Furuli… um… I mean… ‘scholar’ 😂

That excuse is of course wrong. It’s dative and if it were locative, the exiles aren’t specified as the subject of the sentence anyway.

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It is in the dative case as per the LXX. The phrase 'at Babylon' in English has locative sense i.e. indicating a location or place.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

We know that the return trip took 4 months. So both trips must have taken more than 4 months, therefore 4 months is not possible for the round trip as you suggested as a possibility. I tried to be very conservative and suggested 6 months round trip but it's very likely it took longer than 6 months.

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Whatever!!!

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

To do so would be a fallacy of composition, and I have no need for resorting to such tactics. Unlike you, I consider all the relevant texts, their context, and what they actually say. You (parroting the Watch Tower Society), on the other hand, ignore inconvenient verses, read into texts what is not there, and completely distort the order of events.

The facts surrounding the composition of the book of Daniel are very well known, and the JW (Adventist) tradition is simply wrong.

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The issue is not the date of the composition of Daniel as to whether it was in the 2nd or 6th century BC but whether Neb had the tree dream and experienced 7 years of banishment as recorded in Dan.4.

Unlike you, I do extensive research in leading academic journals and Bible commentaries and compare such material with our WT publications.

If you accept the fact of the 70 years described in Zechariah 1 by means of several visions then why would you not accept the historicity of Dan. 4 or is it the case you 'pick and choose' and you call this scholarship?

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

I agree that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was more likely to be 4 months. Since we are talking about desolation of Judah, we can easily assume that the trip back and forth between Judah and Babylon was at least 6 months, Do you agree with this?

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Frankly, I don't know because the time of the journey and its route is discussed in the Bible. so 6 months or 4 months are both possible. However, supporters of 538 BCE for the Return such as Jeffro, vale Alan F- May he rest in peace, Jonsson and others must have envisaged a 'Babylonian Highway (B1) from Babylon to Jerusalem complete with a mass transportation system such as rail, road or plane to make the return in such an impossible timeframe.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jefffro

The one with the pretty charts.

This goes back to one of the questions already asked in this thread that ‘scholar’ won’t (can’t) answer. If 70 years ended when the Jews arrived in Jerusalem, in what way was attention subsequently given to their return?

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I will and can answer this question. I suspect that this is the direction that Bruce X is going so will leave it to him.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

Would you agree that it's reasonable to assume that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was at least 2 months?

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The historical account does not say how long the trek took but 4 months would be most likely.

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And that they left the city of Jerusalem in the month of Tishri in 607, which would be around September–October in 607 BCE?

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In order to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy and later confirmed by Ezra, the land had to be vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE which began the 70 years of Exile- Servitude and Desolation.

scholar JW