Posts by scholar

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Entirely invalid response (and there actually wasn't any special decree just for the Jews, Cyrus just had a general policy of allowing conquered people to follow their religious beliefs in order to quell civil unrest). Giving attention to their return before the end of the 70 years directly contradicts the direct statement at Jeremiah 29:10. But thanks for confirming once again that JWs don't really care what the Bible actually says when it disagrees with Watch Tower Society doctrine.

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There was such an instrument as the Decree of Cyrus. The direct statement or prophecy at Jeremiah 29:10 validates the date of the Return at the behest of Cyrus' Decree and fulfilling the prophetic word of Jeremiah that the 70 years marked the end of the Exile at the Reurn in 537 BCe. Everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle.

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It is not necessary to believe a text is true in order to assess what it says. However, the descriptions in Jeremiah of 70 years as a period during which the nations were subject to Babylon does nicely fit the period from the fall of Assyria in 609 BCE until the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. And Jeremiah's further description of attention being given to the Jews' return after Babylon's 70 years also nicely fits the fact that some of the Jews returned to Jerusalem in 538 BCE after Persia began to reign and began work on the temple foundations in Cyrus' second year, 537 BCE.

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Utter nonsense for credibility is everything for why would a person trust another's disbelief or scepticism for only a fool does that. Your thesis that the Fall of Assyria in 609 BCE? marks 70 year period and ending in 539 BCE with the Fall of Babylon is correct but that has nothing to do with Jeremiah's 70 years which commenced with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE and ended with the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE consistent with the fact that this 70 year was of servitude-desolation and Exile as detailed and foretold in the biblical record.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

otta love JW 'logic'...

40 years of Egyptian exile to Babylon with no historical traces whatsoever... 'Bible says it would happen so it must have happened'...
20 year 'gap' in JW chronology with no records in all Babylonian and Egyptian records despite continuous records for every year of the known history including all the transitions between kings... 'all the records must be wrong or misinterpreted'...

But some people making a 4-month trip in a 6-month period? 'Impossible' says the non-scholar.

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JW logic which is Bible-based is better than your logic.

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The 40 years in relation to Egypt is in the Bible so it must have happened.

The 20 yr Babylonian Gap exists because of the difference between NB History and Bible History in relation to the Late Judean Period.

Your co-called compression of events pertaining to the Return in 538 is implausible.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

And the big ‘reveal’ once he got around to it;

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Took you a long time to realize it was in fact a prophecy which scholar had to tell you.

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Well that was worth the wait. 😂 Pathetic. Despite the moronic attempt to say it was all just in the future, it is not at all consistent with the directly stated order of events: Babylon’s 70 years end, and then attention is given to the Jews’ return.

Still waiting for a valid answer. If 70 years ended when the Jews arrived in Jerusalem, in what way was attention subsequently given to their return?

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The attention given to the Exiles was their release from Exile by an official decree, returning home on time thus fulfilling the 70 years as prophesied and described in detail by the Chronicler.

Just use your plain common sense and just read the text that is if you believe the text or even the whole Bible for you have already discarded Daniel to the trash can.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

Wow.

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Scholar loves to astonish people!

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Jeremiah 29:10: "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place."

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So what?

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You said the moment, the day they arrived in Juda, the 70 years were fulfilled. But the sentence uses the words "will" after the fulfullment, pointing to a future return. So when they arrived in Juda God turned his attention to them and sent them back to Juda when they are already in Juda. Wow, wow, wow..

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Its a prophecy, Boofhead

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

None of these are legitimate problems. But rather than deal with them yet again on this forum, let’s spare a thought for the fact that the claim that it’s ‘impossible’ is coming from someone who thinks every animal species in the world survived a magical flood by spending a year in a wooden box. 😂

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All of these are legitimate and historical that must be considered by any historian or chronologist so deal with them properly and not hide behind the skirts of Jonsson and the late Alan F - May he rest in peace.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Yeah, they don’t care about logic. They don’t care what the Bible actually says. All they care about is protecting their dogma.

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Yeah, it is a prophecy about the future, expressing a future intention or purpose nicely expressed in English as 'will'.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

But there are mismatches with other scriptures. That's what's important to me.

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There are no mismatches of scriptures only mishmash of interpretations of those scriptures.

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You believe that the 70 years were over on the day the exiles arrived at home. What does Jeremiah 29:10 say next in this verse after those 70 years were over, i.e. once the exiles arrived at home, their place? Can you answer this without making nonsense?

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Correct. Jer. 29:10 clearly shows that after the 70 years were fulfilled the Exiles had returned home- being brought back to their place.

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You have a human standpoint on how those scriptures are to be interpreted, that's why there are contradictions, and there is no spiritual food a the right time in over 100 years to explain it.

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Simple. If one were to study Hermeneutics one learns about a 'horizon of understanding' thus when dealing with the interpretation of Bible prophecy there are two standpoints or horizons- human and divine. Therefore the interpretation must account for both worldviews and that is the basis of the worldview of Jehovah's Witnesses and its faithful and discreet slave and the said scholar.

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Again, there is an interpretation of all those scriptures where you don't run into a single biblical contradiction. And the interesting thing is that it also matches archaeology, another bonus. But the problem for JW is that this harmonious interpretation doesn't support the 1914 doctrine,

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Scholar would like to know such an interpretation, where it is, and what Bible commentary and the academic journal discussed and critiqued?

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

There are NWT translation in at least 2 different languages where they say "for Babylon".

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So what! The said scholar has always been perfectly happy with either 'at Babylon' or 'for Babylon . Either rendering proves that the Exiles were in Babylon for 70 years and served Babylon for 70 years.

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Jeffro

Yes, if you change the meaning of something expressed in a different language, then the thing you changed means something different to the original. Well done you. 🤦‍♂️It's remarkably odd that you think this supports your position.

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If you are such an expert in the original language - Hebrew in the case of Jeremiah 29:10 then pray tell what is then the correct translation and why?

scholar JW

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

scholar

Bruce X

Got you, so you can't explain it. And certain NWT verses like "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" and Ezra where it shows that the trip back was about 4 months can be ignored.

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You certainly got me big time for I did not see such deep and meaningful question coming. Just shows how dumb and foolish scholar is. I will, give him a good spanking.

Whatever the length of the journey is unknown and unknowable and really does not matter that the fact of the matter is that the Exiles returned in 537 BCE thus fulfilling the 70 years right on time according to Jehovah's Timetable.

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You say that the 70 years were over on the day the exiles arrived at home. What does Jeremiah 29:10 say next in this verse after those 70 years were over, i.e. once the exiles arrived at home?

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It simply means that at the fulfilment of the 70 years at, in or for Babylon the Exiles would be back home right on time in 537 BCE by the seventh month. Simple , you got it?

scholar JW