for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
A Tabulation of fuzziness regarding the beginning of the 70 years:
612 BCE - Fall of Nineveh=End of Assyrian Power
609 BCE - End of Assyrian Power according to some scholars
605 BCE - Nebs acc year.
Which one was it? COJ settled on 609 BCE but recognized the viability of 605 BCE. Too fuzzy wuzzy!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
If only there were a way of determining which of the events was 70 years before 539BCE. 🤦♂️ I’ll give you a clue. It’s the one about which Insight definitively said “the Assyrian Empire had ended”.
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However, in the previous paragraph Insight states for the Fall of Nineveh in 612/632 BCE that "Thus, the fierce Assyrian Empire came to an ignominious end" supported by 7 scriptural texts from the OT.
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Now… when were those 7 years of Nebuchadnezzar’s alleged insanity? Remember, no ‘fuzziness’…
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That is not my problem but for those who advocate the reliability and trustworthiness of NB Chronology to solve.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
See how the apologist makes up trite excuses for not being able to provide specific details but demands specific details from others. Despite the fact that I even provided details of his own denomination’s position that showed him to be wrong.
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How can that be? When the said scholar has always provided details for that is what scholar does for he likes to help the little people..
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
nsight on the Scriptures, vol. 1, p. 205:
The Babylonian Chronicle B.M. (British Museum) 21901 recounts the fall of Nineveh … Ashur-uballit was trying to reconquer [Harran] after having been driven out. This record is in harmony with the account relative to the activity of Pharaoh Nechoh recorded at 2 Kings 23:29, which activity resulted in the death of King Josiah of Judah (c. 629 B.C.E.). This text states that “Pharaoh Nechoh the king of Egypt came up to the king of Assyria by the river Euphrates”—evidently to help him. “The king of Assyria” to whom Nechoh came may well have been Ashur-uballit II. Their campaign against Haran did not succeed. The Assyrian Empire had ended.
Note that JW literature calls it 629BCE because of their broken chronology, but it actually identifies the specific event in 609BCE when Babylon completely conquered Assyria, exactly 70 years before Babylon was itself conquered.
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Herein lies your problem for the fuzziness remains as the quoted paragraph and the following indicate that Nineveh fell in the 14th year of King Nabopolassar- 612 BCE/632 BCE but three years later in Nab's 17th- 609 BCE/629 BCE year the Assyrian King continued to press on regardless without success, thus you have a choice between 609 BCE or 612 BCE for the actual Fall of Assyria according to NB Chronology. The said scholar can see and feel the fuzziness!!! LOL!!
The late COJ in his masterful deception published as GTR canvassed the idea that the events of 605 BCE were another alternative beginning for 70 years but this would shorten the period to 66 years which would another problem.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
common sense would dictate that the 70 years would have not some 'fuzzy' beginning but a distinct event in terms of history and chronology
Also ‘scholar’:
I would suggest that the vacancy must have occurred SOON after 607 BCE which was Neb's 18th regnal year.
‘Fuzzy’, and wrong even in the context of JW chronology.
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Chronology has no place for fuzziness and if present as in your Chronology along with COJ's GTR shows that the Methodology is flawed unlike that of the celebrated WT scholars which have posited a definite beginning and end for the 70 years.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro.
So much for being a ‘scholar’. According to the mangling of Daniel by the Watch Tower Society, Nebuchadnezzar didn’t even know Daniel could interpret dreams until 606BCE, and the alleged fulfilment of the dream in chapter 4 supposedly happened 12 months after the dream. Even if one supposes that the dream of chapter 4 was around the same time as the one in chapter 2, JW chronology wouldn’t allow the fulfilment of the dream in chapter 4 to be any earlier than 605BCE (585BCE in actual chronology), but this was during the siege on Tyre and 3 years before additional Jews were taken into exile (Jeremiah 52:30). (Back in reality, both stories about Nebuchadnezzar’s dreams are fictional, and use tropes as analogies.)
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What is the point of scholar doing better when you are convinced that Neb's dreams are fictional?
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Nope, definitely no ‘obvious second fulfilment’. But perhaps ‘scholar’ can quote specific parts and show how it is so evident.
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Just because it is not obvious to you does not mean it is not obvious to others. The 'obviousness' of a second or major fulfilment is proved by the dual lexical meanings of the Aramaic 'times' and the many specific texts in Daniel 4 that the said scholar presented to Sanchy in a previous post.
Enjoy!!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Sanchy
looked over those texts. None of them directly mention anything about a second fulfillment.
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Are you thick?
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Nah, the question that should be asked is whether one can gather a second fulfillment from "simply reading the chapter", as you originally claimed, without manipulating the reader into arbitrarily focusing on singular verses cherry picked from your mental library of allegorical interpretations.
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Put your thinking cap on and rethink and reread.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Only in the addled mind of a JW apologist can a region be ‘desolate and uninhabited’ while having millions of people living there. 🤦♂️ Still waiting for Tyre to be completely destroyed and not even found too.
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That is a conundrum for you to solve but the said scholar is quite happy to see that the current circumstances of Iraq along with the current region of Tyre fulfil Bible prophecy. Praise the Lord!!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
t really can’t be stressed enough how outlandishly wrong that statement is. Literally millions of people live in the area that was known as Chaldea.
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How so for there is no such place as the land of Chaldea in terms of modern geography but today these areas are populated but the ancient cities are now lost in the sands of time and ancient civilizations such as Babylonia and Shinar all fulfilling the ancient Bible prophecies. Gotta luv the Bible.
scholar JW
