Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Now he pretends that days weren’t reckoned as starting from the previous sunset to try to convince readers that I got ‘3 April’ wrong. 🤦‍♂️ That is the day of 4 April, doofus. And he shoots himself in the foot because citing P&D simply confirms that Nisan of 588BCE definitely didn’t begin in May. 😂

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Then that is the day- the 4th from midnight to midnight presented in PD as civil days but in Babylonia, the day began with the preceding sunset thus you should have referred to the 4th day rather than the 3rd day. Nisan in 588 BCE began on April 4 and not in May but the table used by Huber and De Meis is used by WT scholars along with Furuli's research that in 588 BCE, Nisan began in early May and PD shows that in that year an additional month was inserted.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Haha. Poor ‘scholar’ really seems to believe that something that literally never happens happened in just the right year to support JW dogma. Despite the fact that JWs know the Memorial is always in March or April.

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Haha. Poor Jeffro for the simple fact is that the right year namely Neb's 37th year according to VAT 4956 is a better fit for 588 BCE than 586 BCE according to the data. This has nothing to do with the Memorial for its observation is based on lunar observations at Jerusalem and not Babylon. Silly Jeffro!!!

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And the claim about Nisan beginning in May in the footnote isn’t from the source ‘scholar’ cites, it is only an assertion by Watch Tower. And Parker and Dubberstein’s tables do not indicate the year starting in May either. Nisan of 588BCE began in the evening of 3 April. Such a liar!

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A pathetic response for the quoted scholarly source that Jeffor has not read or consulted. The simple fact is that if the data suggests that the New Year for 588 BCE began in early May then the said scholar says: 'So be it!' No assertion is needed but simply recognizing the facts of the matter. Nisan began on 4 April 588 BCE according to P &D. Such a liar!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Yeah, it’s so ‘clear’ that only JWs (and some extremely minor sects affiliated with the Bible Student movement) believe the 607BCE nonsense. 😂 And JWs lie to such a great extent about it that they even claim that Nisan began in May of ‘588BCE’ (The Watchtower, 1 November 2011, p. 28), even though they know very well that their supposedly ‘most important day of the year’ never begins in May.

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Nonsense. This subject is discussed by means of footnote '17' on page 27 as a reference to the explanation of the differences between 588 and 568 BE in respect of Neb's 37th year in VAT4956. (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 2011).

The footnote refers to the research of two scholars published as Babylonian Eclipse Observations From 750 BC to 1 BC but you have not indicated that you have read this research either on this post and on your silly blog with its pretty coloured charts. It is shown that in the year 588 BC. It is shown by means of an eclipse in the VAT 4956 of the 15th Simanu can be dated to either 568 or 588 BCE. If that eclipse is dated to 15 July 588 BCE then this means that Nisan as the first month would have begun on May 2/3 588 BCE-Julian Calendar. It is noted that the year 588 BCE had an additional month (intercalary) inserted after the 12mth of the preceding year as shown in the tablet which reads "8th of month XII" which is also noted in Babylonian Chronology 626 BC-AD 75 by Parker and Dubberstein. This means that the eclipse for 588 BCE fits well with the Astro data in VAT 4956 as confirmed by those two scholars, WT researchers and Rolf Furuli

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

I'm sure you'll be able to quote the verse that indicates 70 years of exile then. 🙄😂

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Sure. Jer.25: 8-11; 29:4-10

Your turn, show the verse that indicates 70 years of Babylon's domination then.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Wrong from the first sentence. 🤦‍♂️ The Bible never mentions a 70 year exile. All the nations were to serve Babylon during Babylon’s 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11). Nations could serve Babylon in their own land, and only faced exile if they refused (Jeremiah 27:8-11). When Babylon’s 70 years ended, it would be called to account, which happened in 539 BCE when it was conquered by Persia (Jeremiah 25:12; Daniel 5:26-31; 2 Chronicles 36:20). After Babylon’s 70 years ended, attention would then be given to the Jews’ return (Jeremiah 29:10; 2 Chronicles 36:21). But it is true that Assyria’s final king was defeated in 609BCE, which nicely harmonises with the beginning of Babylon’s 70 years of dominance.

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Nonsense. The Bible clearly shows that the 70 years was a period of Exile when the Jews were deported to Babylon leaving behind a desolated homeland in accordance with Jeremiah's prophecy. During this period Judah along with other nations was made to serve Babylon just as Jeremiah foretold. At the end of the 70 years of its fulfilment marked by the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE, judgement against Babylon, its king, city and land began to be fulfilled again fulfilling Jeremiah's prophecy against the nations.

Some scholars date the 70 years from 609 BCE believed to be the Fall of Assyria but this conjecture along with the claim that it was 605 BCE but both dates are wrong as the Land Of Judah at that time had not been invaded by Babylon a requisite for a beginning of the 70 years and Judah had not yet been desolated.

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In addition to the Bible, VAT4956 provides astronomical confirmation that 587BCE (not 586BCE) is the correct year. See also 586 or 587?

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Again nonsense for Rolf Furuli has demonstrated that VAT 4956 has been dated incorrectly and can now be used as evidence in support of 607 BCE.

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WT scholars have over many decades produced scholarly research which proves 607 BCE as the only possible date for the Fall of Jerusalem as opposed to the uncertain dates of either 586 or 587 BCE which both fail to accommodate the historical fact of the Jewish/Babylonian Exile.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

he usual drivel devoid of reality. Just go away. You’ve been trounced enough for now.

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Ditto!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Ezra used Nisan-based accession dating. You claim to understand this subject matter but you need every little thing explained to you.

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Prove it. We cannot be dogmatic about whether Ezra used the Nisan or Tishri accession based calendar as this is a matter of controversy within scholarship.

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Irrespective, Iyyar of 536BCE wasn’t part of Cyrus’ second year regardless of which of the dating systems is chosen, and therefore is not the year the temp foundations were laid. Despite your plaintive claims and desperate need for your religious superstitions, it isn’t a problem at all for a contingency of Jews to have returned to Jerusalem in 538BCE. (Though it is amusing that ‘all things are possible with God’ unless it’s inconvenient for JW dogma.

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WT scholars in harmony with Ezra 3:8 have thoughtfully determined that the temple foundation was laid in the second month 536 BCE.

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In summary, Babylon’s 70 years began when the last Assyrian king was defeated in 609BCE and ended when Babylon’s king was ‘called to account’ in 539 BCE. The Jewish exile began in early 597BCE, and Jerusalem’s desolation began in 587BCE (Ezekiel 40:1). After Babylon’s 70 years ended in 539BCE, attention was then given to the Jews’ return in 538BCE, after the land had rested 49 years (compare Leviticus 25:8). Temple reconstruction then began in Cyrus’ 2nd regnal year, 537 BCE

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Jeffro will not be happy!!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

scholar' desperately needs it to be 'impossible' for a contingent of Jews to have prepared for a journey from Babylon to Judea in just a couple of months. Of course, it is entirely possible that teams of people could have made the necessary preparations, and many sources agree that 538 BCE is the correct year. But 'scholar' needs it to be impossible even though it is supposedly possible for God to accomplish anything.

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The said scholar has no need of desperation for the biblical evidence clearly indicates the impossibility for the contingent of Jews to have returned home in 538 BCE. But if Jeffro's imagination stretches that far then that is a matter for him. The historical account not only discusses the journey's preparations but there is also the time of the actual Decree and its proclamation throughout the Empire is an additional factor that disproves 538 BCE as a candidate for the Return.

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So, even though it is actually practically possible for the Jews to have organised a journey from Babylon to Jerusalem in a few months, in view of JW superstitions, it is especially preposterous that 'scholar' believes it is 'impossible'.
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Such a comment ignores all of the other factors that form part of the history of the Return as described by Ezra and the fact that precise chronological information is lacking, so based on what we do know and what we can know it would be impossible to accomplish such things within 12 months thus reason and the facts should move rather than imagination or some wild theory.
scholar JW
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362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Look how doggedly the apologist tries to defend his ‘fuzzy’ assignment of 537BCE!

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Nothing fuzzy about 537 BCE as it conforms to the regnal data of Cyrus' reign with his issuing the Decree in his 1st year followed by the history of the publishing of the Decree and the extensive journey preparations following with a length of the journey thus arriving back home and resettled by the 7 month in either Cyrus' 1st or 2nd year dependent on the calendar used by Ezra and the precise time when Cyrus uttered the Decree.in his 1st year.

When you clear up the fuzziness of the beginning of the 70 years as to whether it occurred in 612, 609 or 605 BCE according to your advocacy of secular chronology then you can be credible.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

t is particularly amusing that the JW apologist argues that the entirely plausible return of a contingent of Jews in 538 BCE is ‘impossible’ but the same standard isn’t applied elsewhere.

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Only possible in your imagination for Ezra's detailed history of the event disproves 538 BCE and supports the more reasonable interpretation of 537 BCE for the Return as discussed in your favourite reference book Insight on the Scriptures.

scholar JW