Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

This is typical of the nonsense the apologist tries. In one comment, I correctly stated that a Babylonian calendar day started on the evening of April 3, which is the day of April 4. There was no inconsistency at all, but the dishonest ‘scholar’ tries to claim something was acknowledged ‘at last’.

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The simpler fact is if you are going to refer to the tables then quote the table correctly and PD lists for the beginning of Nisan is April 4 and not April 3 for the year 588 BC.

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Note that there was actually an intercalary month before Nisan of 587BCE, which is of no help to the lying apologist.

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The fact is that PD shows for the year 588 BC that there is an intercalary month or extra month was added to the preceding year 0f 587 BC which means that the New Year began not in April but May 588 BC.

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Simanu never starts in July. The false association of an eclipse on 15 Simanu (5 July 568BCE) with one on 15 July 588BCE is a Watch Tower Society contrivance, which only further demonstrates their dishonesty and yours. (Note that ‘scholar’ has again claimed here that the 15th day of Simanu was July 1, but the Watch Tower footnote actually asserts that 15 Simanu was 15 July and that Simanu began July 1.)

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VAT 4956 shows differently and is not a contrivance as the eclipse dated July 15 588 matches well with the eclipse mentioned in VAT 4956 -3 Simanu which is further supported by the tablet's reference to an additional month which means that the New Year did not start until May2/3 which is is well explained in the footnote 17.

VAT 4956 - Lunar eclipse on 15 Simanu (Babylonian 3rd month) -

Therefore Simanu began 15 days earlier -

There was a lunar eclipse July 15 588 BC Julian calendar

Thus, the first day of Simanu would be June 30/.1 July 588 BC Julian calendar

Therefore, Nisanu would have begun two months earlier on May2/3 588 BC

Normally, according to P&D the new year would have begun on 4 Nisanu-3/ 4 April 588 BC - Julian calendar

VAT 4956 states that an extra month was added after the 12th month Addaru of the preceding year which then means that the new year of 588 BCE did not start until May 2/3.

Thus, the date of this lunar eclipse in 588 BC well fits the data on the tablet, VAT 4956

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

Ok. Those scriptures would be Jer.25: 8-11; 29:4-10.
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Agreed for such texts prove that the 70 years was not only a period of domination by Babylon as servitude but also a period of Exile and the desolation of the Land of Judah.
scholart JW
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362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

'scholar' will continue to deny reality. But for honest readers, the following extract from Parker & Dubberstein confirms, as I previously stated, that the first day of Nisan 588BCE (i.e. Nebuchadnezzar's 17 year) was 4 April and the first day of Nisan 568BCE (i.e. Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year) was 23 April. Babylonian Chronology - 626B.C.-A.D. 75, Parker & Dubberstein, page 28:

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At last, Jeffro now states more correctly that NIsan for 588 BCE begins on April 4 as shown in P&D's table for this is reality and does not show April 3. because PD begins from midnight and not the evening.

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The said scholar has never said that PD shows Nisan for 588 BCE began in May and it is recognized according to these tables that there is not an example of Nisan beginning in May. However, PD show that in 588 BCE there was an intercalary month Addaru II preceding Nisan 588 which if 588 BCE is the assigned year because VAT 4956 mentions an eclipse, of the third month Simanu on the 15th day- June 30/July 1 thus according to VAT 4956 and that there was also an intercalary month as "8th of month XII confirms the fact that the New Year began not in Nisan but on May 2/3 thus establishing 588 BCE for Neb's 37 th year. The simple fact is that PD does not show that lunar eclipse described in VAT 4956- Simanu 15- July 15, 588 BCE

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

‘scholar’ knows very well that none of the sources support the Watch Tower claim that Nisan began in May in 588BCE. It is purely Watch Tower conjecture based on their incorrect assertion that Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year ‘must’ be 588BCE. The correct year is 568BCE, with which all the secular sources agree.

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You are not very smart, are you? Vat 4956 simply gives a certain lunar eclipse along with other lunar and planetary data. The tablet indicates that a certain eclipse namely 15th Simanu which can fit the eclipse dated July 1 588 BCE. The Babylonian month Simau is the third month thus the first month Nisan must have begun two months earlier in May, if you have a May problem then take it up with the scribes who recorded Vat 4956 There are other lunar and planetary data that fit 588 BCE better than 586 BCE so 588 BCE is now properly considered for Neb's 37th year with a 20-year difference between 586 and 588 BCE. Thus 607 BCE is firmly established based on historical, biblical and astronomical evidence.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

The facts are these:

VAT 4956 shows that Neb's 37th year showed an eclipse - the 15th of the third Babylonian month Simanu which corresponds to July 15 588 BC as shown in the tables published by Huber and De Meis which means that the beginning of that month would be June 30/July 1, 588 BCE. This means that the year beginning with the first month Nisanu or Nisan would have begun two months earlier on 2/3 May 588 BCE which would make such a year a most suitable date for Neb's 37th year rather than 586 BCE.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

While we are at it and see you are such an expert then no doubt you have to hand a copy of page 186 of the reference book referred to in footnote 17 in that WT article and please explain why the reasoning in that footnote and its related paragraph in the Wt article on page 25 is in error.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Now he pretends that days weren’t reckoned as starting from the previous sunset to try to convince readers that I got ‘3 April’ wrong. 🤦‍♂️ That is the day of 4 April, doofus. And he shoots himself in the foot because citing P&D simply confirms that Nisan of 588BCE definitely didn’t begin in May. 😂

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Then that is the day- the 4th from midnight to midnight presented in PD as civil days but in Babylonia, the day began with the preceding sunset thus you should have referred to the 4th day rather than the 3rd day. Nisan in 588 BCE began on April 4 and not in May but the table used by Huber and De Meis is used by WT scholars along with Furuli's research that in 588 BCE, Nisan began in early May and PD shows that in that year an additional month was inserted.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Haha. Poor ‘scholar’ really seems to believe that something that literally never happens happened in just the right year to support JW dogma. Despite the fact that JWs know the Memorial is always in March or April.

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Haha. Poor Jeffro for the simple fact is that the right year namely Neb's 37th year according to VAT 4956 is a better fit for 588 BCE than 586 BCE according to the data. This has nothing to do with the Memorial for its observation is based on lunar observations at Jerusalem and not Babylon. Silly Jeffro!!!

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And the claim about Nisan beginning in May in the footnote isn’t from the source ‘scholar’ cites, it is only an assertion by Watch Tower. And Parker and Dubberstein’s tables do not indicate the year starting in May either. Nisan of 588BCE began in the evening of 3 April. Such a liar!

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A pathetic response for the quoted scholarly source that Jeffor has not read or consulted. The simple fact is that if the data suggests that the New Year for 588 BCE began in early May then the said scholar says: 'So be it!' No assertion is needed but simply recognizing the facts of the matter. Nisan began on 4 April 588 BCE according to P &D. Such a liar!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Yeah, it’s so ‘clear’ that only JWs (and some extremely minor sects affiliated with the Bible Student movement) believe the 607BCE nonsense. 😂 And JWs lie to such a great extent about it that they even claim that Nisan began in May of ‘588BCE’ (The Watchtower, 1 November 2011, p. 28), even though they know very well that their supposedly ‘most important day of the year’ never begins in May.

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Nonsense. This subject is discussed by means of footnote '17' on page 27 as a reference to the explanation of the differences between 588 and 568 BE in respect of Neb's 37th year in VAT4956. (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 2011).

The footnote refers to the research of two scholars published as Babylonian Eclipse Observations From 750 BC to 1 BC but you have not indicated that you have read this research either on this post and on your silly blog with its pretty coloured charts. It is shown that in the year 588 BC. It is shown by means of an eclipse in the VAT 4956 of the 15th Simanu can be dated to either 568 or 588 BCE. If that eclipse is dated to 15 July 588 BCE then this means that Nisan as the first month would have begun on May 2/3 588 BCE-Julian Calendar. It is noted that the year 588 BCE had an additional month (intercalary) inserted after the 12mth of the preceding year as shown in the tablet which reads "8th of month XII" which is also noted in Babylonian Chronology 626 BC-AD 75 by Parker and Dubberstein. This means that the eclipse for 588 BCE fits well with the Astro data in VAT 4956 as confirmed by those two scholars, WT researchers and Rolf Furuli

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

I'm sure you'll be able to quote the verse that indicates 70 years of exile then. 🙄😂

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Sure. Jer.25: 8-11; 29:4-10

Your turn, show the verse that indicates 70 years of Babylon's domination then.

scholar JW