Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

t hadn't seemed necessary. Like others, I had only responded to what the Watch Tower Society had actually claimed, and of course they don't mention that the date of the summer solstice in VAT 4956 immediately shows them to be wrong. But, at my own leisure, I will add mention of this additional issue just to even more thoroughly show the Watch Tower Society's position to be completely and utterly wrong.

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Strange that it is important now so you will be altering your Blog post? WT scholars have not mentioned the summer solstice no doubt because it has no significance to the matter at hand.

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Do I just? 🤣 I don't really need to do any such thing. But if I find a conveniently accessible source, I might do so if I feel like it. Irrespective, the range of possible solstice dates is quite definite. (And it's 568BCE, doofus. Not 586.)

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Only for the purposes of honesty and transparency but on scholar's request you have done accordingly.

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Once again demonstrating your ignorance. But obviously it would affect the position of the moon relative to the various constellations.

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Well then what is the computed difference or effect for it is odd that others have not noted such an impact.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

But since it is established that the summer solstice necessarily occurs around 29 June (Julian calendar) for the given period, the 9th day of the 3rd month must correspond to around that date. And it does exactly correspond for the established chronology of 568 BCE. Of considerably less importance, the eclipse 6 days later is therefore reaffirmed as falling on 5 Ju

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The appearance of the summer solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month is irrelevant to the lunar eclipse of the 15th of the third month for it is simply one of the many astronomical observations computed or observed contained in the tablet. But if you believe it is significant then it is a matter for you.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Thank you and I accept the omission of 588 BC for scholar is not too difficult and hard to please.

Now all that you have to do is explain the relevance of the date of the summer solstice of 'the 9th' on Line '16' of the tablet and the lunar eclipse of the 15th' on Line '17'.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Maybe other commentators haven't raised it because the other problems with the Watch Tower Society's flawed analysis are generally sufficient to show them to be wrong. But I am quite clever as well, so I don't mind being first.

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How come you have not mentioned this matter in your Blog on your website? Further, you need to provide a scanned copy of such tabulations for the solstice for the years 586 and 588 BCE. The said scholar is of the opinion that changes concerning the Earth's orbital distance from the Sun has no impact on observations of the Moon either observed or computed thus such a solstice has no relevance to the subject at hand and that is why WT critics are silent on this matter- a red herring!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Wow. 🤦‍♂️The summer solstice is an astronomical event. Changing the date of the solstice so extremely would require a significant alteration to the earth's axial tilt and/or distance from the sun (very significantly more than the range of its elliptical orbit).

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Indeed. thus you need to provide precise information and sources for the date of the summer solstice for both 568 BC and 588 BC if you believe it is relevant.

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Even if it is argued that such a catastrophic change did occur, any such change would make it impossible for modern researchers to accurately predict the positions of any stars or planets in the Neo-Babylonian period.

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OK so let us get this matter sorted and explain how the summer solstice is relevant to the matters at hand of the proposed beginning of the New Year, Nisanu, 588 BC or is this just a red herring for none of our critics including COJ have raised this point and this too demands an explanation. Ann oO' Maly with her discussions of the sky positions in comparison between 568 and 588 BC is silent on this matter.

Let us go!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Though 'scholar' has already been thoroughly trounced, it's also worth noting that VAT 4956 identifies the summer solstice on the 9th day of the 3rd month.

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Indeed

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For 568BCE, that corresponds to 29 June (Julian calendar), which is a very good fit for the solstice in that period. (The solstice is usually 20 or 21 June on our modern calendar, but the period shifts because the Julian calendar differs by about a day for every 400 years compared to the Gregorian calendar.)

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What about 588 BC?

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But for the Watch Tower Society's nonsensical assertion about Nisan beginning in May in 588BCE, this would put the summer solstice on 9 July, which, again, is impossible.

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Really, then you must explain why? If in fact, the summer solstice has any relevance as our critics make no comment on this fact. Perhaps this is just a 'red herring'!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Barbour was an Adventist you doofus. (I suppose you'll try to irrelevantly 'argue' that he wasn't a Seventh-day Adventist, probably not understanding that Adventism is broader than just SDAs.)

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Barbours's religious affiliations were complex moving from Methodism-Millerites and Second Adventism. best left to a competent historian. Refer to Nelson Barbour The Millenium's Forgotten Prophet, 2009, Schulz and De Vienne.

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Correct year is definitely 587BCE. Not 586BCE. And very obviously not 607BCE. I've already demonstrated that the Watch Tower Society's mangling of VAT 4956 is impossible.

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There is no correct year, for scholars to date are undecided whether it is 586 or 587 BC. The date 607 BC is the only correct date.

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VAT 4956 identifies a year that had an intercalary month prior to Nisan, and no intercalary month at the end of that year. 568BCE fits both criteria. 588BCE fails both. Not to mention the more specific observations of the stars and planets that definitely disprove the JW dogma, which is why they pretend the names for the planets are ambiguous.

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VAT 4956 refers to a lunar eclipse which is datable to our modern calendar and the mention of an additional month for that year thus these two simple lines of evidence validate 588 BC for Neb's 37th year in combination with the other lunar and planetary observations.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

The said scholar has the following translations into English of the original article of VAT 4956 by Paul V Neugebauer and Ernst F Weidner in 1915.

1978 Avondale College, Cooranbong, NSW, Australia arranged by Neil Mc Fadzen a Regular Pioneer with Leonard Tolhurst-Librarian
1988 Herman Hunger
2011 Ann O'Maly

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

The Bible Students adopted earlier Millerite (Adventist) chronology. They've consistently been wrong, and they've never been at the forefront of anything.

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Not so.WT Bible Chronology arose from two sources namely Nelson Barbour and Christopher Bowen an Anglican Rector.

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Hardly. They've just dug themselves a deeper hole by doubling down on 588BCE supposedly being Nebuchandezzar's 37th year (despite 588BCE actually being what JW chronology calls 608BCE). By claiming that VAT 4596 isn't consistent with 568 BCE, the Watch Tower Society can never fill the 20 years of its missing neo-Babylonian chronology without admitting its reinterpretation of VAT 4956 is complete rubbish.

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Rubbish. The hole that has been dug is for those who support 586 or 587 BC for the Fall of Jerusalem now disproved by a more accurate representation of VAT 4956 which confirms 588 BC for Neb's 37th year. Thus such additional evidence along with the 70 years proves with a comparison with NB Chronology the missing 20 years and the calculated date of 607 BCE for the Fall of Jerusalem.

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Simanu never begins in July (or any day after 27 June), just as Nisan never begins in May, so this automatically tells anyone with even a passing understanding of the subject that the Watch Tower Society's interpretation is obviously wrong. No one in mainstream scholarship is interesting in adopting that nonsense. (And certainly not without knowing who the supposed 'researchers' were.

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However, VAT 4956 says differently as shown by WT scholarship made public so that the scholarly community can reap the benefit. Scholars are very interested as shown by some published criticism on this new understanding which the said scholar has to hand. You seem to be very troubled by those anonymous researchers but the said scholar is rejoicing in their anonymity.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Alethia

AwakenJw website has put together a timeline for Jurusalems destruction and related prophecies. As you can see there is no magical 20 year gap. Its literally impossible.

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Not so. The focus of attention regarding a 'twenty-year gap' lies in the proper chronology and nature of Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 years marked primarily as a period of destruction or desolation of Judah in respect of its kingship, temple, capital, population and land. This prophecy also was a period of servitude to Babylon and a period of Exile in Babylon. The biblical facts prove that the 70 years could have only commenced with the Fall of Jerusalem during the reigns of Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon and Zedekiah of Judah in 607 BCE and ended with the Return of the Jews under Cyrus in 537 BCE ending the Exile.

scholar JW