scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jeffro
JW’s entire purpose is supposed to be to provide convincing proof of their beliefs in order to save people from their angry deity. You (and Fisherman) have not provided any evidence for your beliefs at all, which according to JW doctrine makes you bloodguilty. So it’s not me you should be feeling sorry for. Luckily for you, it’s just a fantasy--
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Everything is a fantasy to you so why are you here expending much energy in trying to refute or disprove WT doctrine and theology?
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jeffro
Poor Jeffro, for that is what happens when you do not believe in Noah's Ark and the Flood and the 'seven trumpets and the woes'.
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Alethia
You're living in Fantasy Land Scholar!
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That is why scholar is happy now he is a happy scholar!
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Anyone can link those trumpet blasts to anything they want. I've had seven of my own trumpet blasts today alread
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Did not our dear sweet Lord say "Happy is the one who reads aloud and those hear the words of this prophecy and observe the things written in it for the appointed time is near" Rev. 1:3; cf. 22:6,7
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jeffro
Not only is Furuli’s claim a dishonest attempt to disguise the fact that the lunar and planetary observations fit 568BCE, but this also contradicts ‘scholar’s’ previous claim that Furuli had shown that the planetary observations fit 588BCE
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Not at all for Furuli is fully aware how scholars from the time of Neugebauer and Weidner in 1915 believed or assumed that Neb's 37 th year was 568 BC but with Furuli's research we can now take a fresh and new approach to the astro data contained in the tablet and see that it fits 588 BCE better. The said scholar's approach to the planetary data in relation to Furuli's findings is that such data are contrived to fit an assumed date 586 BCE and if it is shown that such a conclusion in respect of the other lunar data clearly proves 588 BCE then the planetary data in that lunar context can be used in support of 588 BCE
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Well isn’t that convenient? 😂 As it happens, the ‘astrologer’ (likely intended as ad hominem to discredit the source material) was right about 568BCE being Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year, as all the contemporaneous cuneiform records also attest.
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It is not a matter of convenience for Furuli has clearly discussed the many aspects of the time and nature of the tablet and simply published his research which does not please WT critics. So sad, too bad.
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The elaborate excuse invented by Furuli is complete nonsense--
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It is only nonsense because VAT 4956 can now be re-interpreted in support of 607 BCE
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jorden
While I wait for your reply on when do you say Rev 11:15 was/is fulfilled I wanted to incorporate this for the purpose of you addressing it in your reply.--
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Rev 11;15 with the sounding of those seven trumpets got underway from 1922 with the Cedar Point, Ohio convention continuing on until 1928 with the Convention in Detroit, Michigan. The said scholar is still recovering from the shock waves emanating from those trumpet blasts and now at long last has put his ear muffs away..
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jeffro
587BCE is preferred among secular sources. 586BCE is preferred by sources simply relying on traditions rather than the specific evidence. No modern analysis of the chronology prefers 586 over 587.
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Utter rubbish!
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This drivel is nothing more than wishful thinking. The period is very solidly established and confirmed by astronomical observations.
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It is called methodology something which you know nothing about.
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He quite definitely has not ‘proven’ that the planetary observations fit 588BCE, which is impossible. Furuli is neither an astronomer nor a historian, so he’s no more qualified than me for assessing the astronomical observations in VAT 4956, hence a fallacious argument from authority.
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Furuli has discussed the planetary observations in great detail and has published his findings on their relevance to VAT 4956 and has found that "not completely correct, there are good reasons to believe that they represent backward calculations by an astrologer who believed that 568/7 was year 37 for Nebuchadnezzer". In short, put these in the bin!! Furuli is a Semitic scholar and has shown competence in the use of astro tables and software and has expert knowledge of the language of VAT 4956.
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Alethia
Why don't you discuss the trumpet blasts Scholar? Do you belive they have anything to do with Conventions such as 1922 Cedar Point Ohio etc?
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The said scholar loves those 'trumpet blasts' and how they have been fulfilled on God's people- anointed or the elect or chosen ones during the Lord's Day from 1914 CE
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jorden
Ok, with that noted tell me when these 42-months that occur during the 6th trumpet/2nd woe, tell me when they take place???-
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Tishri15 or October 4/5 1914 through to Nisan 14 or March 26/27, 1918
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Jeffro
Relative to known events in Nebuchadnezzar’s reign such as the battle of Carchemish, the Bible actually falsifies 586 BCE and confirms 587BCE.
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Utter nonsense. Scholars today currently endorse 586 BCE rather than 587 BCE
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Entirely false. Even the Watch Tower Society’s poor 2001 attempt admitted that the business documents are entirely consistent with the established chronology. Their footnote says: “Business tablets exist for all the years traditionally attributed to the Neo-Babylonian kings. When the years that these kings ruled are totaled and a calculation is made back from the last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 B.C.E.”
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Such business documents necessitate the converting of any regnal data into a modern-day calendar and are subject to a 'fine tuning' in order o accommodate a 'twenty-year gap in the NB Period.
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VAT 4956 contains planetary observations that categorically cannot be reconciled with 588 BCE (even if you pretend the names of the planets are ambiguous), hence it has no relevance to the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BCE.
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Rolf Furuli has researched this subject and proved that both the planetary observations along with the lunar observations are a better fit for 588 BCE rather than 568 BCE. Furuli is the only scholar to date that has researched and examined VAT 4956 since Neugebauer and Weidner, 1915.
scholar JW
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
Vidqun
An interesting article, attempting to harmonize the Bible with the Babylonian Chronicles is A. R. Green (1982). “The Chronology of the Last Days of Judah: Two Apparent Discrepancies.” Journal of Biblical Literature, 101, pp. 71, 72.
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The said scholar has this article in his theological library.
scholar 7W
