Posts by Parker

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

quote by wanton

P: No, how about today's wt study article? Par 11, what should Eve have said to the snake? --not the wt response-- but: Just hold it a moment, let me get my husband
It was not that Eve "did not love God" as wt asserts, but

Well, I don't know if that's new light, but all of that goes against the principle of love stated in the Bible:

4 Love+ is patient+ and kind.+ Love is not jealous.+ It does not brag, does not get puffed up,+ 5 does not behave indecently,+ does not look for its own interests,+ does not become provoked.+ It does not keep account of the injury.+6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness,+ but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things,+ believes all things,+ hopes all things,+ endures all things.+

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Therefore, if Adam and Eve had love for Jehovah, then they never would have sinned against him. Because after all, how did Jesus remain obedient to Jehovah and endure each and every trial and tribulation? Therefore, the whole concept of Adam and Eve, along with the Watchtower's explanation for it is flawed.

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

quote by Nitty-Gritty

With Eve, it is actually LOVE that would have made her choose the right thing, not "perfection". It is love, or lack of, that would make her decide what choice she made. Obviously perfect humans were made with that flexibility; to love or not to love.

Hmmm. But why would Eve lack love for God? But it's like the Watchtower quote that I made in my original post:

Was Eve’s sin inevitable? By no means! Put yourself in her place. The serpent’s claim completely distorted what God and Adam had said. How would you feel if a stranger charged someone you love and trust with dishonesty? Eve should have reacted differently. . .

Therefore, if the Watchtower could ask this question to its imperfect audience and we all know what the answer would be, why wouldn't the answer to that question apply more so to perfect beings? And yes, Eve should have react differently, therefore, this whole story and concept is flawed.

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

quote by dothemath

Imagine if Adam + Eve hadn’t sinned, the whole world would be full of perfect people living in paradise. (This is what witnesses hear on a weekly basis)
what are the odds out of millions of people, that someone eventually eats the fruit? It would be inevitable. So now you’ve got perfect people alongside imperfect?
In all watchtower books talking about the original sin, they never mention any other possibilities.

Excellent point, dothemath, because there would have never been a "touchstone" for anyone to see the results of choosing moral independence from Jehovah.

Once this issue had been settled beyond any doubt, the vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty would thereby stand proved for all eternity. This would be a touchstone against which any future challenge could immediately be tested and turned back.

Almost 6,000 Years of Witnessing for Jehovah

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

quote by Anders Andersen

I always wonder how an act of disobedience and the resulting disturbed relationship between individuals (Adam/Eve vs JHWH) resulted into physical defects.
Were Adam and Eve not really perfect by themselves, but merely kept alive and healthy by God while they obeyed him?
Or were they perfect and healthy all by themselves, and God purposely put defects into them after they disobeyed?
And how is sin inheritable through DNA?
What are the mechanisms for this?
So many questions, so few reasonable answers....

Those are really good questions. You should start a thread on that.

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

quote by Diogenesister

In fact I was reassured by older JWs as a kid that in paradise women would no longer be subject to headship and in heaven male and female no longer exist.

Hmmm. The scriptures could have fooled me.

Genesis 6:2

2 the sons of the true God*a began to notice that the daughters of men were beautiful. So they began taking as wives all whom they chose.

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

quote by Parker

And FOR THAT STORY, sin is inevitable, even though sin WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN INEVITABLE if a perfect God had created perfect individuals who thought and who reacted perfectly.

I just thought about how what I said in my quote sounded similar to what the Watchtower had said about how Eve's sin was not inevitalbe. Just for clarity, what I was actually saying was:

And FOR THAT STORY, sin is inevitable, even though sin SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED if a perfect God had created perfect individuals who thought and who reacted perfectly.

14

So according to wt. Doctrine, If you die one day before Armageddon...

by nowwhat? in

you will be resurrected.

but if you live one more day when armageddon starts you will die a horrible death with no chance of a resurrection.

makes sense to me!.

Parker

You can't make sense out of nonsense.....and you cannot reason with the unreasonable.

I agree, tiki. But it's astonishing how so many people have these beliefs and strongly think that these beliefs are holy and true.

14

So according to wt. Doctrine, If you die one day before Armageddon...

by nowwhat? in

you will be resurrected.

but if you live one more day when armageddon starts you will die a horrible death with no chance of a resurrection.

makes sense to me!.

Parker

Faith is the only thing that keeps anybody in any religion. It has nothing to do with common sense or logic.

Good point, Dagney. And apparently, that is why "faith" is absolutely essential to be a religious person.

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

Thank you for your responses everyone. Also, I left out something. I forgot to mention that according to the Watchtower's understanding of the Bible scriptures that portray sin entering the universe through Satan and Adam and Eve, that the whole concept of sin entering into the universe really doesn't make sense. But if anything, a perfect angel deciding that it wanted to rebel against God and rule over the human race and humans succumbing to its deception, sounds more like a scapegoat explanation. Because for argument's sake, the way that I look at it is that if the Biblical story of creation is true, then it doesn't make sense that an eternal and perfect God's first go-around with creation would have resulted in such sin, destruction, chaos, pain, and misery. And the explanation that perfect individuals had imperfect reactions and imperfect inclinations makes no sense. Therefore, this sounds more like a made-up story which needs an explanation for why sin and imperfection exists. And FOR THAT STORY, sin is inevitable, even though sin WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN INEVITABLE if a perfect God had created perfect individuals who thought and who reacted perfectly.

64

Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker in

i was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: was sin inevitable?

also, i had thought about past watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from our readers ask if adam was perfect, how was it possible for him to sin?.

well, then, did god create adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation?

Parker

And the same thing would apply to with Satan. According to this article: Our Readers Ask . . . Did God Create the Devil?

How, though, could a perfect spirit creature—who had neither weaknesses from within nor wicked influences from without—become wrongly inclined? He evidently craved worship that belonged only to God and saw the possibility of bringing humans under his rule instead of that of Jehovah. By continuing to dwell on this prospect of rulership instead of dismissing it, he allowed the idea to fester until, at last, he acted upon it. The process is described in the book of James: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin.”—James 1:14, 15; 1 Timothy 3:6.

To illustrate: Imagine an accountant who sees an opportunity to manipulate records in such a way as to steal from his company for personal profit. He might quickly dismiss that wrong thought. If, instead, he dwells on this possibility, then the idea will grow in its appeal, and he is likely to carry it out. If he does, he has, in effect, made himself a thief. If he lies about his crime, he becomes a liar too. In a similar way, by cultivating wrong desires and acting on them, the angel whom God created used his free will to engage in deception and rebel against his Father, thus making himself Satan the Devil.

But I think that the Watchtower is shooting itself in its own foot with these 'imperfect humans' illustrations because why would a perfect spirit creature even 'see' or imagine a selfish and hurtful opportunity or possibility? Because even as an imperfect human, I read or watch videos about corrupt and hurtful behavior by people just about everyday in the news. And I would say that just about everything that I read or hear about, usually has never crossed my mind as an opportunity or possibility. Therefore, why should it cross the mind of an entity that was created as good and as perfect as God could have made him? However, according to Watchtower reasoning, Satan's sin was inevitable too.