Posts by ThomasMore

20

Warwick sits on $70 billion?

by LaFrancia in

70,000 real estate properties at an average value of $100,000 and perhaps we can say (no one knows for sure) that warwick sits on $70 billion in real estate value.

in the video (deleted by jwborg but available on the avoid.jw website) of the 2018-19 coordinators' committee report (english) shown to all congregations at the mid-week meeting, we find several curious and interesting indications:.

- at minute 6.52 seconds you see some data .

ThomasMore

TonusOH - I think WTC is doing everything they can to make KHs a reliable revenue stream - but it is still not enough. More are fading and the only "new" ones coming in are born-ins. Eventually they leave also. The outlook for the Org is grim.

Then there is the occasional large settlement that must be dished out in cash. These seem to drive some of the targeted sales where the per/pub monthly expectation is raised beyond the reach of the cong. It is no coincidence that these KHs are worth more than the average. It should be a warning to any JW attending a KH that has a high net value. Eventually WTC may decide it is better to sell your KH, especially if contributions are falling below the limit.

For the foreseeable future, most KHs will continue to be monthly revenue stream, but some will be sold when the need arises. WTC surely has a calculation for determining whether or not an immediate sale outweighs the monthly rent paid by the congregation.

There are surely other considerations but Treasury NEVER shares any meaningful information with the rank n' file. They are the most insular dept in Bethel, never hitting the radar of anyone searching for information. If that dam ever breaks, it will be catastrophic, that's why Treasury Bethelites don't have to worry about being kicked to the curb. Even the smallest brain among them knows too much to risk having them spill the beans.

The new Assets Management group will reduce the mission critical status of Treasury, at least where real estate is concerned. This group will keep tabs on every statistic for every congregation and kingdom hall.

72

Reddit thread about Bethel Reducing Headcount

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

apparently, the downsizing is still happening and from what i read those let go are over 50!.

sad because these people expected to be lifers.

now they have to make their way in the world at an advanced age with no education or desirable skill!..

ThomasMore

Left Bethel on my own - no escort out the door. Many old friends have been "re-assigned" in their late 50's. Most had no marketable skills and little to no savings. A few had family to lean back on but most had to hit the ground running - they have stumbled along trying to make a new life at the end of their life. It is all very sad and there is no hope that WTC will soften their landing.

A few are "awake" to WTC tactics, but many continue to trudge along hopeful that the rank n' file will help carry them - they just cannot cut the cord. This is the saddest thing I can imagine. Like a dog that is put out, kicked, screamed at and not fed, they stay at the door, unable to understand what they did wrong to deserve this.

Most were good people who deserved better and could have been successful without the mind-corrosive influence of WTC. But others were highly critical that I would dare to leave the throne of Kings. Their mental distress is deserved, but others are just tragically sad as they try to care for a wife, living from table scraps that they get from local JWs. I can only imagine how emasculating it must be for the men who cannot confidently provide for the wife they love.

I actually cried while I wrote this.

20

Warwick sits on $70 billion?

by LaFrancia in

70,000 real estate properties at an average value of $100,000 and perhaps we can say (no one knows for sure) that warwick sits on $70 billion in real estate value.

in the video (deleted by jwborg but available on the avoid.jw website) of the 2018-19 coordinators' committee report (english) shown to all congregations at the mid-week meeting, we find several curious and interesting indications:.

- at minute 6.52 seconds you see some data .

ThomasMore

It's about what I expected, and some very good comments as well. By my estimations, the average value of their real estate was closer to $150K, which totals $10.5 BIL.

No-Zombie - you are probably spot on, but WTC has a poor track record for market decisions going back notably to 2008 when they lost money in the derivatives market. I don't think that is necessarily the play by the new Irish Asset Management Corp though.

Five years ago, WTC had all the KHs appraised. Appraisals are only valid for a short period so clearly they served more than one purpose. (1) It helped them prioritize the ones they intended to sell. (2) It helped them establish their gross worth so that they could negotiate for lower interest rates to meet monthly expenses since donations were decreasing steadily, practically crashing during Covid.

I don't think they actually used them as collateral to trade against, but it is clear that in some cases, banks did own the building when ownership abruptly changed hands, indicating that a substantial equity loan was in place. The current criteria for a cong to keep their KH seems to include meeting a minimal financial donation each month. This suggests that the KH has been collateralized. One Cong that I am aware of, recently had their monthly "donation" raised by 1/3. They were unable to keep up and the KH was sold. I suspect that WTC was hungily eyeing it for sale and may have gotten an enticing offer that sealed the deal.

Vidiot - your comment is powerful IMO. WTC has feared losing their tax status going back to the Jimmy Swaggart days when his organization was pursued by the IRS. Losing charitable status is THE way to bring WTC down. If they were forced to pay taxes in the U.S., they would dissolve faster than a packet of Splenda in hot water. Solving the national debt problem will eventually force the government to scrutinize pseudo-religions like WTC. It may be the untapped frontier for much needed revenue that saves (or stalls) the dollar from collapsing.

JeffT - I would like to hear more about your thoughts on how many KHs may be collateralized. Can you weigh in?

Journeyman - excellent points to consider! I think your thumb is on the pulse of WTC. I am no prophet, but I think that Ramapo is DOA based on what I hear from those in the know. It is now a placeholder for donations until it is isn't.

38

Questions about WT illustrations

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

when i was a kid....i used to look at the wt illustrations of paradise conditions and would day dream about life in the new system....i later used this same technique (shame on me) to brain wash bible students.

however...as i grew up lol (apparently!

) the illustrations changed....and became more modern.

ThomasMore

The imaginative ideas of paradise earth originated with the illustrators at Bethel, not the writers. As they produced their pen and ink, then oil on canvas fantasies, each became more far-fetched than the previous. I can honestly say that they were the driving force behind the teaching. The writers were often amazed when they saw the dream-scape creations that accompanied their articles. Of course the readers assumed that the WTC had received the inspiration directly from God.

In this Chicken/Egg scenario, the illustrators came before the teachings.

38

Questions about WT illustrations

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

when i was a kid....i used to look at the wt illustrations of paradise conditions and would day dream about life in the new system....i later used this same technique (shame on me) to brain wash bible students.

however...as i grew up lol (apparently!

) the illustrations changed....and became more modern.

ThomasMore

Stanley Tape Measure. They will still be making tools in the new system.

27

MANY DIFFICULT YEARS AHEAD : PER CHRISTENSEN

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

https://youtu.be/jsmbtv4nafi?si=ezj0dnudyjls4knc.

there was a time they preached the great tribulation was a short period of time between the fall of babylon and jesus coming back to save them, now they realize there are difficult years ahead of us, watch this latest morning worship video by per christensen on this subject .

ThomasMore

By now WTC should certainly be able to read the writing on the wall. The difficult years ahead are mostly of their own making. That should be sobering to them as they fend off legal challenges due to their CSA record, KH selloffs, shunning and family harm policies.

34

Jehovah's Witnesses came by today.

by 3rdgen in

this morning i was in our front yard sitting down pulling weeds when i saw 3 people slowly walking on the sidewalk in my direction.

2 of them were young, handsome, clean shaven, wearing nice crisp white shirts and perfectly tailored black slacks.

they could have been mormons except.... there was a 60ish portly woman wearing a frumpy dress and ugly sandals.

ThomasMore

Finding the thinking 'ON' switch for JWs can be more than a challenge 3rdgen but you may have cracked the code with that one. Well done.

Menlo Park should be an eye opener for any JW who has ever donated to support their own KH. I have never heard the followup on all the elders who were kicked out. Anyone out there know?

36

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

by jwundubbed in

i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.

i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.

then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.

ThomasMore

Just wow Jeffro. Take a breath and sit down.

36

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

by jwundubbed in

i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.

i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.

then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.

ThomasMore

...and yet you did take it personally. Now you have turned it into a Nationalist issue - a leap to be sure. Everything OK Jeffro?

36

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

by jwundubbed in

i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.

i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.

then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.

ThomasMore

In case it matters, in Webster's, chicken comes before egg, by many pages...