Posts by ThomasMore

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

I am still amazed that despite WTC's exhaustive efforts to prevent anyone from seeing the genuine state of their organization, some still put credence in the annual report. Not only have their methods of counting changed in order to inflate the numbers, they ignore the measurement tools that are necessary to determine their real growth or decline.

They make it impossible to determine the number of KHs that are still being used vs the ones that have been sold.

They make it impossible to determine the number of congregations still active vs the ones that have been dissolved/merged.

They dumb down the amount of time required to count a person as a publisher so that the numbers no longer reflect REAL publishers vs 15 min publishers who were just listed as "active" by Secretaries who did not want to document a decline for fear of the C.O.

They do not publish the number of faders/DFings/DAing which could indicate a trend down or up.

They do not publish the number of deaths.

They do not publish the average age of those baptised.

If I reported stats in my job like WTC reports, I would be fired. As for those who compare them to other religions, please consider that other religions are more honest in their reporting. As for non-JW reports, be aware that many inactive still identify as JWs due to the deep indoctrination stigma of identifying as something else. I did that for years after I left until the shackles completely fell off.

Given WTC's propensity to lie/obfuscate/spin, I am surprised that anyone bothers to read the report at all.

It is clear to me that the ex-JW presence on social media is growing exponentially, and the numbers support that statement. The growing hatred toward anyone that they see as out of step tells me that they are devouring one another.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

ThomasMore

Gorb - they transformed because they were collapsing. They hired a PR Agency and rebranded as JW.org. It didn't just happen through natural organic change - it was calculated.

What is happening now is that the old problems they sought to distance themselves from have returned.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

ThomasMore

Hellothere - the numbers ARE indeed fake.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

ThomasMore

I recall a group of houses on a beach that we used to see often. Year after year after year we drove past them and we thought they would always be there. One day, a storm hit that stretch of beach directly and POOF! - THEY WERE GONE!!

Likewise, just because WTC has survived since 1879, does not mean that they will always be here. The storm is beginning to hit them directly in civil and criminal (yes criminal) judgements. Don't be surprised to hear that the GB has left with their Go Bags.

Some cases are brewing now that may have the effect of a direct storm hit. Even if they survive, they will be a shadow of what they used to be.

42

Have you ever been on a congregation picnic?

by LostintheFog1999 in

were you ever on a congregation picnic?

i was on several occasions.. the arrangements were often announced from the platform after the closing song and prayer by the last elder up on the platform.. sometimes it was included in the service meeting announcements as "on saturday we're meeting at 10.00am at the kingdom hall for field service, and after field service for anyone who wishes, especially for the younger ones, we will be having a congregation picnic meeting at the beach carpark on seaview road.".

well, according to the new elders manual you won't be hearing those words again.

ThomasMore

I suspect that WTC prohibits Cong Picnics because Service Dept has a drawer full sex abuse reports that happened at Cong picnics. Shutting them down without actually saying why they are so dangerous should make the R&F ask why.

I recall as a child that after every picnic, my father had to deal with an immoral act committed during the event. Usually it was drinking, drups, smoking, consensual sex - but there was the occasional pedo incident that also occurred and it kept him up at night worrying. He didn't complain when WTC started shutting them down.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

ThomasMore

Hellothere, I think you nailed it.

WTC (the GB) will engage in the most impressive plate-spinning imaginable to convince their worshippers that they are increasing. Like election recounts that seem to go on and on and on, they will not announce until they can find a way to coat the ugly facts with glitter and shine.

So what are the facts? Just look at what they are doing:

Begging for money contstantly - they are broke
Asking for donations for Ramapo - why do that if they have lots of money
Cajoling the R&F to get back to meetings in person - few want to attend
Telling the R&F to get off Zoom - meanwhile making vaccinations mandatory for schools
Lowering hours again to secure a title of RP or Aux P - they once said the hour requirements came directly from God
Getting sanctioned by countries for shunning and DFing - denying it, then saying they do but it is beacuse they just LOVE PEOPLE SO DARN MUCH!
Selling KHs to cover the CSA lawsuits - recently announcing that thousands of new KHs are needed

This corporation is crumbling and all the evidence is there for everyone to see. If things were going well, that annual report would be blasted out as obnoxiously as possible making Donald Trump look humble in comparison.

41

Pioneer Hours Update

by Bartolomeo in

regular pioneers: 600 per year, 50 on average per month.auxiliary pioneers: 30 hours per monthauxiliary pioneers in march and april: fee reduced to 15 hours.

ThomasMore

Great comments in this thread!

JWTom - "When everyone is special.....no one is special!"

Apparently the Lord is less demanding these days and that is a relief!

Reporting time continues to be a stress point for the JWs. I suspect that they want it for 2 reasons:

1. Proof of activity for tax-exempt status

2. Competive hierarchy that keeps the rank & file engaged

Too bad there are no longer any merit badges for being a pioneer. Elders used to get "extra" privileges for being a pioneer, like speaking parts. Now the Branch takes those and they are delivered in video as television stars.

It is sad that they are still able to cajole people into their hamster wheel when the facts show that the D2D and cart minding are not productive. The growth of internet anti-jw info and videos is killing the religion. No matter what they do, it grows larger and makes proselytizing less productive. My old cong had only one person join over a 10 year period, and he was a nut that was soon right out the door. They covered their small territory about once every 5-6 years, and some territories never got covered at all. They were mean and everyone knew it.

Most JWs will continue to fudge their time to get WTC off their backs, and the numbers will get worse, resulting in a lowering of the bar. I wonder if PIMIs will ever figure out that they are being managed by a business?

34

Lawsuit: I said GB member Barr that my Bethelite stepfather abused me; he did nothing

by Corney in

here's an excerpt from the recent lawsuit deborah hines v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york et al (paragraphs 158-180), one of 29 known cases brought against the org pursuant to the ny child victims act.

what should be kept in mind is that gerrit lösch apparently worked in europe (the austrian branch and eastern europe) at the time when the abuse was allegedly reported to him (not a gb member then).. plaintiff was raised a member of the jehovah’s witnesses.

she primarily attended meetings at various congregations in arizona.

ThomasMore

Loesch was being groomed for GB, and he was Jacracz's enforcer. He spent a lot of time in the US at headquarters prior to his appointment to the GB. He had a way of just showing up whenever a serious abuse case bubbled up like a boil on the back of a super model. Give him credit for being a hard worker during those desperate times - he was Johnny on the Spot and he got rewarded. S U P A S T A A A A A A A !!!!!!!!!!!! (That's ghetto for Superstar)

16

getting round the territory slowly compared to before?

by Indoubtbigtime in

from what i know most territory maps in most congregations are being done much much slower than before.

my congregation is very very slow getting round the territory compared to before.

then pioneers will have hour requirement coming back in march but they are just not used to getting 3hrs a day 7 days a week.. many congregations used to get round all their territory every so often, now all congregations around north london where i am (yes i’m an ms involved with territory servants) are hardly getting around their territory at all.. of course letter writing was slow going but now back to first call hardly anyone is going out in person and those few that do don’t do that much.. even the elders who are supposed to take the lead don’t seem to come out much at all and when they do i know of more than one example of them only doing ten mins maybe a few houses then going for the obligatory coffee break.

ThomasMore

WTC painted itself into a corner with the relaxed hours. It got a lot of wannabes onto the pioneer list because it was a giveaway - and the R&F love giveaways. I wonder if it made "real" pioneers angry to see fake ones get the moniker without the sacrifice.

Already, lots of the Covid pioneers are throwing in the towel. They cannot get the hours required even if they come down to 30 hours a month. The fact is most who joined bought into the whisper that the end was about to explode upon the earth. Now that no end is in sight - why pioneer?

Even do-nothing Cart sitters look less than enthused when they actually get out with a cart (which has also declined where I live. I am betting that the genuine numbers are so bad that WTC cannot report them for fear it would look like pending collapse.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

ThomasMore

I am amazed that anyone here on this forum still thinks that WTC accurately reports their numbers. They lie about anything that makes them look bad, so why would they not lie about their contraction. All observations are about the same:

Selling KHs
Consolidating congregations
DFing anyone that disagrees with their changing doctrines
Shunning DF'd, DA'd and INACTIVE ones. In some cases UNPOPULAR ones
Low in-person meeting attendance
Guilting children to get baptized
Low retention rate of 16-25 year olds
Reddit ex-JW members off the charts (does not count those who read and never join)

I don't rely on surveys since many ex-JWs are conditioned to avoid speaking out about leaving the faith. I remember when all the congs in my city were busting at the seams. Now they have sold off more than I can count, and still cannot fill the chairs in any of the KHs at any meeting - even the C.O. visit. Why are so many preferring to stay on Zoom rather than meet in person? They are fading - that's why.

Maybe someone here is seeing something I am missing. If so, please tell me what it is because all of the above are symptoms of shrinking - not growth.