Posts by ThomasMore

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

ThomasMore

Unlike the years of growth that are now far behind them in the rearview mirror, WTC faces a near impossible uphill slog to recover - THE INTERNET.

Like a child who builds sandcastles at low tide, WTC faced no formidable criticism in the pre-internet era. Some disputed but it was hard to find their criticism and WTC had the bully pulpit to counteract anything that "wicked apostates" brewed up in their caldron. But the high tide of the internet arrived and now eveything WTC builds get wave after wave of exposure from a vast assortment of scholars, exJWs, and human advocates who expose the nonsense, washing it away as fast as they can spew it out.

The gig is up for WTC. They may not completely dissentegrate soon, but the writing is on the wall - Mene, Mene, Tekel and Parsin. Their Kingdom has been weighed in the balance and found deficient. Slaves are now leaving in droves as the shackles are broken. Sound familiar?

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

ThomasMore

Reasonfirst, Fred Franz did have his own collection that remained in his locked office for years after his death until it was catalogued and boxed away. His vision had failed many years before his death so he had ceased to read them and there is no record of others reading them for him. However, his thinking was clearly influenced by non-JW literature, but never shared with the R&F or with the Writing Dept officially. To get his viewpoints, you would have had to follow him to the sauna he frequeted weekly along with other young Bethelites who viewed him as the oracle of WTC, Socrates.

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

ThomasMore

Terry, thanks for that excellent ensemble of facts!! Well researched and very much appreciated!!!

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

ThomasMore

I am still amazed that despite WTC's exhaustive efforts to prevent anyone from seeing the genuine state of their organization, some still put credence in the annual report. Not only have their methods of counting changed in order to inflate the numbers, they ignore the measurement tools that are necessary to determine their real growth or decline.

They make it impossible to determine the number of KHs that are still being used vs the ones that have been sold.

They make it impossible to determine the number of congregations still active vs the ones that have been dissolved/merged.

They dumb down the amount of time required to count a person as a publisher so that the numbers no longer reflect REAL publishers vs 15 min publishers who were just listed as "active" by Secretaries who did not want to document a decline for fear of the C.O.

They do not publish the number of faders/DFings/DAing which could indicate a trend down or up.

They do not publish the number of deaths.

They do not publish the average age of those baptised.

If I reported stats in my job like WTC reports, I would be fired. As for those who compare them to other religions, please consider that other religions are more honest in their reporting. As for non-JW reports, be aware that many inactive still identify as JWs due to the deep indoctrination stigma of identifying as something else. I did that for years after I left until the shackles completely fell off.

Given WTC's propensity to lie/obfuscate/spin, I am surprised that anyone bothers to read the report at all.

It is clear to me that the ex-JW presence on social media is growing exponentially, and the numbers support that statement. The growing hatred toward anyone that they see as out of step tells me that they are devouring one another.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

ThomasMore

Gorb - they transformed because they were collapsing. They hired a PR Agency and rebranded as JW.org. It didn't just happen through natural organic change - it was calculated.

What is happening now is that the old problems they sought to distance themselves from have returned.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

ThomasMore

Hellothere - the numbers ARE indeed fake.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

ThomasMore

I recall a group of houses on a beach that we used to see often. Year after year after year we drove past them and we thought they would always be there. One day, a storm hit that stretch of beach directly and POOF! - THEY WERE GONE!!

Likewise, just because WTC has survived since 1879, does not mean that they will always be here. The storm is beginning to hit them directly in civil and criminal (yes criminal) judgements. Don't be surprised to hear that the GB has left with their Go Bags.

Some cases are brewing now that may have the effect of a direct storm hit. Even if they survive, they will be a shadow of what they used to be.

42

Have you ever been on a congregation picnic?

by LostintheFog1999 in

were you ever on a congregation picnic?

i was on several occasions.. the arrangements were often announced from the platform after the closing song and prayer by the last elder up on the platform.. sometimes it was included in the service meeting announcements as "on saturday we're meeting at 10.00am at the kingdom hall for field service, and after field service for anyone who wishes, especially for the younger ones, we will be having a congregation picnic meeting at the beach carpark on seaview road.".

well, according to the new elders manual you won't be hearing those words again.

ThomasMore

I suspect that WTC prohibits Cong Picnics because Service Dept has a drawer full sex abuse reports that happened at Cong picnics. Shutting them down without actually saying why they are so dangerous should make the R&F ask why.

I recall as a child that after every picnic, my father had to deal with an immoral act committed during the event. Usually it was drinking, drups, smoking, consensual sex - but there was the occasional pedo incident that also occurred and it kept him up at night worrying. He didn't complain when WTC started shutting them down.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

ThomasMore

Hellothere, I think you nailed it.

WTC (the GB) will engage in the most impressive plate-spinning imaginable to convince their worshippers that they are increasing. Like election recounts that seem to go on and on and on, they will not announce until they can find a way to coat the ugly facts with glitter and shine.

So what are the facts? Just look at what they are doing:

Begging for money contstantly - they are broke
Asking for donations for Ramapo - why do that if they have lots of money
Cajoling the R&F to get back to meetings in person - few want to attend
Telling the R&F to get off Zoom - meanwhile making vaccinations mandatory for schools
Lowering hours again to secure a title of RP or Aux P - they once said the hour requirements came directly from God
Getting sanctioned by countries for shunning and DFing - denying it, then saying they do but it is beacuse they just LOVE PEOPLE SO DARN MUCH!
Selling KHs to cover the CSA lawsuits - recently announcing that thousands of new KHs are needed

This corporation is crumbling and all the evidence is there for everyone to see. If things were going well, that annual report would be blasted out as obnoxiously as possible making Donald Trump look humble in comparison.

41

Pioneer Hours Update

by Bartolomeo in

regular pioneers: 600 per year, 50 on average per month.auxiliary pioneers: 30 hours per monthauxiliary pioneers in march and april: fee reduced to 15 hours.

ThomasMore

Great comments in this thread!

JWTom - "When everyone is special.....no one is special!"

Apparently the Lord is less demanding these days and that is a relief!

Reporting time continues to be a stress point for the JWs. I suspect that they want it for 2 reasons:

1. Proof of activity for tax-exempt status

2. Competive hierarchy that keeps the rank & file engaged

Too bad there are no longer any merit badges for being a pioneer. Elders used to get "extra" privileges for being a pioneer, like speaking parts. Now the Branch takes those and they are delivered in video as television stars.

It is sad that they are still able to cajole people into their hamster wheel when the facts show that the D2D and cart minding are not productive. The growth of internet anti-jw info and videos is killing the religion. No matter what they do, it grows larger and makes proselytizing less productive. My old cong had only one person join over a 10 year period, and he was a nut that was soon right out the door. They covered their small territory about once every 5-6 years, and some territories never got covered at all. They were mean and everyone knew it.

Most JWs will continue to fudge their time to get WTC off their backs, and the numbers will get worse, resulting in a lowering of the bar. I wonder if PIMIs will ever figure out that they are being managed by a business?