Sorry SB for overreacting to your question. I like debates on bible, but it's good to bring our views forward and then let anyone draw conclusions for themselves on weather they are in the position to be saved or not, and then, if they are willing they can adjust their understanding accordingly.
GodBeliever
JoinedPosts by GodBeliever
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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According to Jehovah's Witnesses, who will be saved?
by Vanderhoven7 ini know who won't be saved according to witnesses and that includes just about everyone alive at armageddon who is not a jehovah’s witness.
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others who are permanently lost include adam and eve, those who died in the flood, people of sodom and gomorrah and apostates to their one true religion..
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GodBeliever
Vanderhoven,
Yes it's pretty accurate.
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-11If you think that JWs believe in the blood of Christ and a lot of don't them don't do the above things they can be credited with righteousness. For some reason they can't see that. If you deny the value of Christ sacrifice then you cannot be saved. The original teachings of JW are supporting that only through Christ's sacrifice our sins can be washed away.
"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:17-21
"I said to him, “My Lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them." Revelation 7:14-15The revelation 7 also shows that the great crowd will be able to make it through the great tribulation and to stand before God only as a consequence of washing their robes in the blood of Christ and made righteous.
No unrighteous will make it to that point.
"And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them." Revelation 20:9
The ones that will be on earth at that point are considered saints.
"having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Acts 24:15Here also shows that will be people who will die as righteous before the day of judgement comes.
I will add something here to your summary. The JW teachings support that the 144000 of the heavenly class are credited with righteousness in this life but I can't see how other sheep will make it through the great tribulation or have a relationship with God through Jesus without being considered righteous.As for the ones that didn't sin against the holy spirit meaning that they did not consciously rejected God after knowing him or deliberately rejected Him from the start, I can't tell they will not benefit from the resurrection in the Judgement day.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
SB
I am not playing this game of yours. And who are you anyway to say to whom these scriptures apply or not?
I know what I believe,and I tried to give you a satisfactory explanation of my belief. I believe in Jehovah and in Jesus's blood that was spilled for our sins. And I believe this is the only way to salvation.
There is no other name under the sun that anyone can be saved but Jesus's. This is God's will and everything is for his glory.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
"GB, then you should be able to sincerely answer how you are considered a righteous person since only righteous people will be admitted into God's family. I've asked you several times and you won't answer. Are you hiding something GB?"
SB
I am trying to answer everything you ask me through what the word of God provides us, but I suspect you are being biased and you will only be satisfied with the answers that you want. Every other answer that does not suits you, seems to be ignored and then you accuse me of not giving you the answers. You would make a very good politician.
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered. Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, (as it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, that is, God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that do not exist. Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised because of our justification."
Romans 4:2-7, 9-11, 16-17, 22-25
"Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him."
Romans 8:1-7, 9-15, 17
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
If anyone wants to accept human ideas regarding God as a being, their worship is rejected by Him. The bible is clear only for sincere persons.
"And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory, for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I want. Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.” Jesus replied to him, “It is written: ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’ ”Luke 4:6-8"The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who live in it." Psalms 24:1
“I will announce the decree of the Lord: He said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have fathered You. ‘Ask it of Me, and I will certainly give the nations as Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth as Your possession."Psalms 2:7-8
"Just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life."
John 17:2"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Philippians 2:5-11"in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have fathered You”? And again, “I will be a Father to Him And He will be a Son to Me”? And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.” And regarding the angels He says, “He makes His angels winds, And His ministers a flame of fire.” But regarding the Son He says, “Your throne, God, is forever and ever, And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom. “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions.”
Hebrews 1:2-9
“How you have fallen from heaven, You star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who defeated the nations! “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." Isaiah 14:12-14
Satan wanted to be like God, he realized he cannot ascend above God but he tried to ascend above Jesus who is not the same with Almighty God. He even tried to make Jesus to worship him offering him what he was given by Jehovah, dominion over the earth. He could never have dared to ask Jehovah to worship him. He knew his limitations.
The bible said that everything belongs to Jehovah and after Jesus came to earth and proved obedience until death he was raised by Jehovah and given dominion over heaven and earth. The bible also states that Jesus never wanted to be like God and himself said that his father is greater than him.Jesus is the only creation of God, made in His likeness, and He never wanted to be like God as opposed to Satan. Jesus is not a mere angel, he inherited a name higher than anyone else, because he is the Son of God. He was given dominion over the heaven and earth and it was the express wish of Jehovah that everyone to worship Jesus as a representative of Jehovah in everything.
"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."
John 5:22-23 -
263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
"Do realize the term “ son of god” means the essence of god in the flesh. "
Yes, that is what it means for you. Son of God when it refers to Jesus it means exactly that. The bible doesn't give another interpretation. Adam was never a baby neither any spiritual being created by God including Jesus.
"When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Job 38:7
"For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him."
Romans 8:14-17Jesus was the only one that was given life by God. Anyone else have become sons of God trough Jesus.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God. We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. 1 John 4:15 -
263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
Vanderhoven
I totally agree with you that everything was done in Jesus's name. But this was Jehovah's decision to vindicate and glorify His name trough his son. He wished to exalt Jesus to the highest position in the Universe but not above himself.
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him."John 3:16-17"and a voice came from the heavens: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”Mark 1:1
“I will announce the decree of the Lord: He said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have fathered You. ‘Ask it of Me, and I will certainly give the nations as Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth as Your possession. Psalms 2:7
"Jesus spoke these things; and raising His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, so that the Son may glorify You, just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life."John 17:1-2
"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have fathered You”? And again, “I will be a Father to Him And He will be a Son to Me”? And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.” But regarding the Son He says, “Your throne, God, is forever and ever, And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom. “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions.”
Hebrews 1:1-6, 8-9
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."Colossians 1:15-20
Jesus is not a mere creature, he is the only son of God, he is God but not the Almighty God, as he was created in God's likeness. After that everything and everyone else was created through Him and for Him. He is the mediator between the man and God. That's why WT are where they are now because they abandoned Jesus and tried to bypass Him and go directly to Jehovah. Jesus said that nobody can have a relationship with the Father but trough Him.
Jesus was given life in himself. He didn't have life in himself (he wasn't immortal) in the beginning after he was createdby Jehovah, whereas the Father who doesn't have a beginning, is and has always been immortal.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man."
John 5:25-27 -
263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
"So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
Yes SB "you can say" but the bible doesn't say and we know what says in the bible about those who adds words to it.
Jesus clearly explained what oneness with his Father means. If you don't believe Him it's only because you don't want to give up your understanding of who God is. Jesus always pointed out he was the son of God not god himself. Again if you don't want to accept that I am not going to argue.
"I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are. “I am not asking on behalf of these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I also have given to them, so that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and You loved them, just as You loved Me."
John 17:11, 20-23
Why is so difficult to understand these words of Jesus?
I don't expect all the Christians Jesus talking about here to be added to your understanding of God.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
"But the fact is, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man death came, by a Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all."
1 Corinthians 15:20-28"Whoever speaks is to do so as one who is speaking actual words of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 4:11"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation."
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
"just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life."
John 17:2
"But seek His kingdom, and these things will be provided to you. Do not be afraid, little flock, because your Father has chosen to give you the kingdom."
Luke 12:31-32
"And He said to her, “What do you desire?” She *said to Him, “Say that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine shall sit, one at Your right, and one at Your left.” He *said to them, “My cup you shall drink; but to sit at My right and at My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father.”
Matthew 20:21, 23
"Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” saying, “We give You thanks, Lord God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign."
Revelation 11:15, 17"Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John 5:22-24"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:38, 40You need to understand the reason why the new testament emphasizes the name of Jesus.
The kingdom of the new world was given to Jesus, he and his church had to advertise that kingdom.
It's Jehovah's will that things are done this way so His name will be glorified.
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:16-18
"The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. And whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son."
John 14:10, 13 NASB2020