DJW,
The truth stays the same as Jehovah and Jesus never change.
GodBeliever
JoinedPosts by GodBeliever
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaim the year of Jehovah’s favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them a garland for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they may be called trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, that he may be glorified. And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. But ye shall be named the priests of Jehovah; men shall call you the ministers of our God: ye shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. For I, Jehovah, love justice, I hate robbery with iniquity; and I will give them their recompense in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. And their seed shall be known among the nations, and their offspring among the peoples; all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which Jehovah hath blessed. I will greatly rejoice in Jehovah, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with a garland, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. For as the earth bringeth forth its bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord Jehovah will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
Isaiah 61:1-4, 6, 8-11
Yes Jesus emphasizes the name of His Father.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus(Jehovah saves), for he will save his people from their sins.” Matthew 1:20-21
"I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son." John 14:13
"Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd standing there heard it and said that it was thunder. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not for mine."John 12:28-30“I have made your name known to those whom you gave me from the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. John 17:6, 11
"And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."
2 Corinthians 5:18-20"Fill their faces with confusion, That they may seek thy name, O Jehovah. That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth." Psalms 83:16, 18
"And I will execute great vengeance upon them with wrathful rebukes; and they shall know that I am Jehovah, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them."
Ezekiel 25:17Jesus is the name that God gave Him which is Jehovah's name. Christ means anointed. So Jesus was anointed to announce Jehovah salvation that was to be done trough Jesus.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
Slim,
Jesus came to glorify Jehovah name. For some reason people don't like His name.
"Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd standing there heard it and said that it was thunder. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not for mine."
John 12:28-30
"leave the way, turn aside from the path, let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel.”
Isaiah 30:11
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
SB
If we talk about hell and the immortality of the soul we are going in another direction not supported by the bible. All these are old pagan teachings. Why do you think the Egyptians built the pyramids?
The bible teaches that humans die and then they are being resurrected. No human goes to heaven until the second coming of Jesus.
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
1 Thessalonians 4:14-18
"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man."
John 3:12-13
"This He said, and after this He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep. and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let’s go to him.” Therefore Thomas, who was called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples, “Let’s also go, so that we may die with Him!”
John 11:11-13, 15-16
"Only the one who sins shall die, "
Ezekiel 18:20
"All these died in faith. They did not receive what had been promised but saw it and greeted it from afar and acknowledged themselves to be strangers and aliens on earth,"Hebrews 11:13
"I have the same hope in God as they themselves have that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous."Acts 24:15
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day.”
John 6:40
The bible clearly does not teach that only the body dies and the soul goes to heaven.
You say the same about Jesus that he didn't die. Whereas the bible says he died and was resurrected by God on the third day:
"For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your holy one to rot in the grave."Acts 2:27
"For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died." 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 6but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.Genesis 3:3-5
You went for that lie.
I believe our discussion is ending here. If you want to believe a lie it's your choice. Nice, having a discussion with you regarding the bible. Thank you.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
SB
If all the Christians are the bride of Christ, who are going to be wedding guests?
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
Vanderhoven,
There is another noticeable difference to consider.
And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Revelation 19:8
After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
Revelation 7:9
Great crowd has white robes, whereas the bride of Christ is wearing fine linen.
and he called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn by his side. And Jehovah said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof. Ezekiel 9:3-4
"And the nations were wroth, and thy wrath came, and the time of the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name, the small and the great; and to destroy them that destroy the earth."Revelation 11:18
John is shown three classes of people here at rev. 11.
The prophets of the old, the saints who belong to the bride class and to them that fear God name.
And I don't have any reason to run, I know where I belong to.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
Vanderhoven
"Do not be afraid, little flock, because your Father has chosen to give you the kingdom"Here it says little flock not great crowd.
"The statement is trustworthy: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He will also deny us;"
2 Timothy 2:11-12"The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne."Revelation 3:21
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all the tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;" Revelation 7:9
Here it says about the great crowd that they are before the throne not on the throne.
As for the great crowd they will be saved in the same way but at a later date namely great tribulation.
Vanderhoven, I don't try to convince anyone. Just presenting my arguments for my belief based on the bible. If you think they are not valid it's your judgement and I respect it.
Believe me I am not following current WT rhetoric of fearing God's punishment or that I will die. I purely serve God because I love Him and I love Jesus too for what he's done for the human race. I wish there will be more people that will take advantage of that opportunity. God is love.
"We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, we also are in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. If someone says, “I love God,” and yet he hates his brother or sister, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother and sister whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God must also love his brother and sister."
1 John 4:16-18, 20-21
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
Vanderhoven,
I can't give you such scriptures because, there are no such scriptures.
What I can tell is that everyone is saved and justified in in the same way trough Jesus's blood and He is the mediator for all who believe. However, salvation comes in stages and there is a ruling class that will be in heaven with Jesus which is being saved first.
"Do not be afraid, little flock, because your Father has chosen to give you the kingdom." Luke 12:32"just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice; and they will become one flock, with one shepherd."John 10:15-16
"The statement is trustworthy: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He will also deny us;"
2 Timothy 2:11-12
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will take you to Myself, so that where I am, there you also will be."John 14:3
"Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And they *sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to learn the song except the 144,000 who had been purchased from the earth. These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.Revelation 14:1, 3-4
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."
1 Peter 2:9-10Not everyone will go to heaven to rule with Jesus but the exact number of 144000 who are the bride of Christ.
Salvation comes in stages.
First those that belongs to the heavenly Jerusalem will be sealed. One can say they are all from the house of Israel.
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God." Romans 2:28-29
After the 144 000 are sealed the great tribulation will come and everyone of the great crowd that will be found faithful will be saved as well by Jesus.
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all the tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they *cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
Revelation 7:9-10
After the first vision of the sealing of the 144000 John has another vision following the first one where he sees the great crowd crying for salvation. (I like a lot this part of the vision). This group comes later in the vision and they are not numbered, neither in line to rule with Jesus ,whereas the 144000 they are purchased from earth and they are the first fruits to God and the Lamb.
"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years."
Revelation 20:6
There is also an royal wedding mentioned in the bible in several places.
"You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions. All Your garments are fragrant with myrrh, aloes, and cassia; From ivory palaces stringed instruments have made You joyful. Kings’ daughters are among Your noble women; At Your right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir. Listen, daughter, look and incline your ear: Forget your people and your father’s house; Then the King will crave your beauty. Because He is your Lord, bow down to Him. The King’s daughter is all glorious within; Her clothing is interwoven with gold. She will be brought to the King in colorful garments; The virgins, her companions who follow her, Will be brought to You.
Psalms 45:7-11, 13-14
"For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:2
"Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters, and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. Let’s rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, because the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has prepared herself.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he *said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb.’ ” And he *said to me, “These are the true words of God.”
Revelation 19:6-9At this marriage between the Lamb and the Church are invited many others which are not of the bride class but are companions to the queen.
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263
What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?
by Vanderhoven7 init seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.
who is the way, the truth and the life?
(john 14:6).
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GodBeliever
DJW, SB
Yes the 144000 are in the new convenant with God under Christ. They are the new heavenly Israel. They are credited with righteousness while in this body so they can have a relationship with Christ. However, they need to prove faithful onto death just as Christ did.
The "other sheep" the haven't been credited righteousness yet so the only way not to die in Armageddon is to run "The cities of refuge were six Levitical towns in the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah in which the perpetrators of accidental manslaughter could claim the right of asylum." However this city of refuge It's not WT, it's the heavenly Jerusalem, the organisation of Jehovah. As long as they stay there they are safe and the will become righteous and will be saved by Jesus trough his blood during the great tribulation. They need to stay there until the death of the high Priest (144000 are part of Christ body who is the high Priest) which means the last member of the 144000 makes it to heaven before the Armageddon starts.
I said to him, “My Lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
Revelation 7:14-15
They will also be saved if they finish this life faithful.