my congregation had around 25 more people at the memorial last night than last year, and the two other congregations i have family in all experienced a similar increase in about 25 more people present.
umm, i'm surprised, having thought this year would see a memorial decline again.
and i'm kind of disappointed..
I guess the key question is how many are genuinely interested people compared to those inactive and pressured to attend like us faders?
I dont have the motivation, but it would be interesting to compare memorial attendance with attendance for the 'special' talk that follows to see how many are really interested.
i am dying of cancer.
yesterday i asked my full blown jw wife if she could snap her fingers and make me well would she do so?.
she replied, "yes.
Sorry to hear about what you're going thru. I can't begin to imagine it.
You articulate very well what i thought since I was a teenager, I'm now in my 50s. If I didn't go to work or live in a country with welfare or a social net I would starve to death as millions do.
So really, praying to god before meal times is to thank him for getting a job and being born in the West. Does god only exist for the Western world who don't suffer grinding poverty and rampant corruption?
i've been thinking about this the past few days and curious what the honest consensus is here just for fun.. show of hands,.
is the governing body.... a: completely sincere.
they really do believe what they teach.. b: somewhat sincere.
Sort of sincere. Probably were at the begining like all of us. They've sacrificed so much and are so heavily invested in the BS they can't leave even if they know in their hearts God doesn't speak to them.
But, how do you admit to 8million + it's a scam? You can't and you don't. So you feign sincerity. And begin to believe it so much so, you really do believe any self fulfilling prophecy means you must be God's chosen ones.
i'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i'm not strong enough to da and live with the family consequences, and despite having several good friends outside the faith, none of them could support me in an active way as such.
Isambard Crater - I did think deeply about all the nonsense that passed off as truth decades ago and occasionally still do. You have to find a space where you can feel comfortable with all the colliding thoughts in your head. I've had a long time to get use to it. I've been using the tablet the last few years.
i'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i'm not strong enough to da and live with the family consequences, and despite having several good friends outside the faith, none of them could support me in an active way as such.
I'm in a similar position. Just do the absolute minimum and make sure you're not heard criticising the Borg.
I get thru the meetings with my Samsung tablet reading books and articles. I dim the screen so it's difficult for onlookers to see what I'm reading. It's all doable just a struggle.
as we all know, armageddon was just around the corner in 1974. at the district conventions that year, it was announced that there would be two special meetings during the month of september; one would be for interested people (e.g., bible studies, family members, inactive, etc.
), and the other would be for baptized publishers.
these were to be held in place of the service meetings for the two weeks, iirc.
I remember those days well. We had a DO whose favourite catch phrase was, 'you won't leave school, school will leave you'. I was in my mid teens at the time.
In those days you had a special meeting with the CO on Saturday evening. One CO brought his count down chart to 1975 with him and referred to it during the talk.
It was the DOs and COs that really hammered home the 1975 day of reckoning to the congregations back then. It didn't happen. My friends' grandchildren are now going to school. Alot of witnesses in their 50s and 60s have very selective memories and deny anything about the end arriving in 1975.
I started to increase my doubts with the generation change in the mid 1990s, and then realised the whole thing was like a brand new car with a rusty burnt out engine with the release of the overlapping doctrine. I thought even the speaker at the assembly, who had the misfortune to present the overlapping doctrine, had difficulty believing as he stumbled trying to explain it.
On a side note, in the UK we had our special internet broadcast meeting over the weekend. Surprisingly, there was little talk about the END and how close we are to it. The emphasis was on being a better and kinder person.
The shocker was the refreshments served at the end of the meeting ( in the Kingdom Hall) which made the whole event a feel like a bit of a reception. If every meeting was like that it would be enough to make me a regular attendee. Not really.
back in 2005, i remember sitting in the stadium in the special rows with 42 others.
8000 people were looking at us - maybe even with a binocular - while listening to the speech.
my family and my friends among them, being all proud of me.. i don't remember being enthusiastic.
Baptised at 14. Expected to feel something different but felt nothing. Even then I had lots of doubts but family and peer pressure made me. Plus made to feel out of the 'club' if you weren't baptised.
Made sure my kids didn't get baptised. If they want to as adults at least they'll know what they're in for.
well, very little, to be honest.
the structure and commitment of the ministry provided discipline necessary to my life.
therefore, i did it, as required, and felt some sense of fulfillment at the bible study stage.. i do like talking to people.
I miss the stress getting everyone out the house in time for the start of the group for field service, at the time wife and three children. Even when I was young, over 40 years ago, I hated field service. Would pray for storms and rain as that was the only valid excuse for not going out in field service when I lived at home.
What else do I miss? Pushing a religion onto people that I wasn't 100% convinced was true especially about the new system coming in the householder's lifetime in order to give a sense of urgency.
I miss filling in the time slip to report hours and placements. Where in the bible is this ever commanded? How on earth can you judge someone's spirituality from a time slip report.
I miss householders saying they're not interested or opening the door then closing immediately they realise a JW is on their door step.
I miss worrying what I'm going to say if someone actually said they were interested.
I miss wasting 2-4 hours a weekend preaching some fantasy to people first thing in the morning.
I miss waking people up who have been at work all week to have someone knocking on their door reminding them how bad the world and selling the JW solution.
What's there not to miss. But some people really do love it!
i've been as honest as i can on this forum throughout my time bouncing in and out..and been jumped on for saying anything positive about the "truth" or my experiences at the hall, but it's been a few years now since i have been attending meetings.
i go to the memorial for family reasons and went to the assembly today for the same reason...but one observation i have to make is most of us have all dealt with years of hearing how gawd awful "the world" is and how the only happiness is going to meetings and out in service.
now that is total bs.
I See where you're coming from. Went to the one day assembly recently and I guess the experience is not too dissimilar to Disneyland. Make belief. You suspend disbelief for the nice feeling and smile it brings to your heart. A safe(ish) environment, meet up with people you haven't seen for ages ( weddings and funerals come to mind).
I don't think I've heard anyone talk about the assembly programme during the lunch time breaks unless it's about 'tear jerk' experience.
I just wonder with the proliferation of tablets, ipads and smartphones how many people actually pay attention. These devices are a godsend for those of us still going to preserve the peace in our families.
One observation I noted at my assembly in the UK was the number of brothers with beards, ok they weren't on the platform but still evidence of defiance and independent thinking.
i haven't been to a meeting in 15 years but my mother and sister are hard as j.w's.
the brothers they are appointing elders are at best suspect like one guy from my old hall made elder,big time drug used before becoming a j.w his talks are all over the place and would have struggled to make m,s years ago but with at least 60 to 70 % of young ones leaving the pool to pick from is at best reduced.. 2 other recent elders both young and zero life experience both on benefits one not well at all falls asleep all the time.. the decent,kind elders mostly older and are decent people with alot of life experience are burning out fast as there are so few of them left like 3 per congro of 100 publishers.. then you have the rich elders who wouldn't ever think of inviting some poor older or mis-fit person out to the expensive placers they go to as they couldn't afford to go so they are above the r&f and the r&f get pissed off with them.
then we have the ones who have "put the kingdom 1st" who are now old worn out and barely getting by from welfare cheque to welfare cheque that are saying "the system should have been over many years ago" it's still here and they are struggling everyday.. then there are the pioneers who have a low payed reduced hour job that seem to think anyone who has anything is totally materialistic and looks down on anyone getting a new car buying a house ect.. along with the child abuse issues,the generation change,access to information the the g.b don't want anyone to know ,not to mention the issues around blood.. is there a tipping point coming????
I don’t think there will be a tipping point that has the masses leaving in droves. Lots of major changes and disappointments characterise JWs and no major shift downwards in numbers has occurred.
My congregation, where I try to visit as little as I can, has elders in their 40s and 50s with decent jobs and are fairly intelligent so it’s a pretty warm congregation. I guess in this case even where attendees know TTAT they will stay and endure the nonsense because they find a sense of belonging and community.
I do know whenever I socialise with other JWs very rarely do topics revolve around JWs or the good news the JW Kingdom, the discussion is invariably secular, jobs, holidays, sport, people etc.
Where someone is adversely affected because they were or are judged harshly, that might give them cause to question the whole JW world.
Where people work with others e.g. an office environment they are exposed to people who are relatively happy without being a JW, that might give them cause to question. Or, where people like me have reached 50+ hearing the same nonsense for over 50 years i.e. how close we are to the end this will give rise to questioning and then a visit to boards such as this, then you quickly become mentally out of the JW world. (The reason why JWs are told to stay away from website like this).
What I do feel will happen is that a significant number will evolve into nominal JWs like you have nominal Catholics, Protestants etc. who remain for the social aspects.
The young who gain an education, beyond secondary school, will quickly realise that truth is not absolute and to claim JWs have the truth is arrogant and presumptuous at the very least so they’ll leave sooner or later.
The consolidation of assets, sweating the assets i.e. using kingdom halls fully (i.e. most days of the week) and the move to digital rather than print will ensure funding is secure for the future. This means JW.org will not wither and die. It will trundle along with a core of super zealous ones and a merry band of apathetic followers.
My observation of the new ones that get baptised from my congregation, other than children, is they have some type of emotional problem. You don’t get successful people with high income, good jobs, educated and emotionally secure joining.
How many sane people really believe in a few years they’ll be petting lions and tigers, living in a big house on a hill with a stream flowing and an abundance of fruit growing in their large garden with everybody around being their best friend? And, their loved ones will rise from the dead? But wait, this can only be your dream come true if and only if you join and remain loyal to JW.org!
