BottleGate_

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Posts by BottleGate_

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  9

  Mark Stephen Lett Raps about Murmuring and Other Urgent Jehovah's Witness Issues

  by BottleGate_ in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1-vnsbp7c.

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  BottleGate_

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1-VnsBP7c
  
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  36

  Video-Man in Field Service asks to speak to a woman's 15-year old Daughter

  by TakeOffTheCrown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone seen this video of a man out in field service asking a woman if he can speak to her 15 year old daughter by name?

  it is rather disturbing.. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/mom-confronts-stranger-asking-to-see-her-daughter/983338603.

  the link takes you directly to the news station.

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  BottleGate_

  "I actually know people who know this family. They said she does not have any JW "friends" or people from school she'd have given her name and address to. Everything about this was shady as hell. I'm so glad she went momma bear on his ass to protect her underage daughter. "
  

  From https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/d0gvkh/mom_confronts_stranger_a_jehovahs_witnesses/
  
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  36

  Video-Man in Field Service asks to speak to a woman's 15-year old Daughter

  by TakeOffTheCrown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone seen this video of a man out in field service asking a woman if he can speak to her 15 year old daughter by name?

  it is rather disturbing.. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/mom-confronts-stranger-asking-to-see-her-daughter/983338603.

  the link takes you directly to the news station.

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  BottleGate_

  
  @Mark_J_ODonnell@JessicaKIRO7Interviewed elder Erik Larson about a JW stalking a 15-year-old girl- but what Jessica Oh does not realize is that Larson is a predator stalker himself!! He repeatedly stalked Brandon @fiquett, asking sexual questions in front of his fiancee's minor son.
  https://twitter.com/Mark_J_ODonnell/status/1170393309031948290
  
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  30

  If You Could Live In Any Era or Decade What Would It Be?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i kind of like the 50’s and early 60’s because of the innocence and “happy days” outlook by that generation.

  it seems most people were pretty innocent and real.. would you rather be living in a different era or is this century working for you?

  ?.

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  BottleGate_

  When I was ten I informed my Mother I wanted to live at the big county Library .

  Now with the internet I'm good.
  
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  2

  Leah Remini Sounds Off on ‘Hypocrisy’ of Scientologist Elisabeth Moss

  by BottleGate_ in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  they want the celebrity to get to talk with them, and like them.

  you know, i don’t respect it, i don’t admire it, and i don’t think there’s anything remotely cute about it.” .

  https://www.thedailybeast.com/leah-remini-sounds-off-on-hypocrisy-of-scientologist-elisabeth-moss.

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  BottleGate_

  https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c9/cc/c1/c9ccc17a9f463e4bf04bc176c08f1c21.jpg
  
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  2

  Leah Remini Sounds Off on ‘Hypocrisy’ of Scientologist Elisabeth Moss

  by BottleGate_ in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  they want the celebrity to get to talk with them, and like them.

  you know, i don’t respect it, i don’t admire it, and i don’t think there’s anything remotely cute about it.” .

  https://www.thedailybeast.com/leah-remini-sounds-off-on-hypocrisy-of-scientologist-elisabeth-moss.

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  BottleGate_

  “The hypocrisy is asinine,” Leah Remini tells me of Moss. “[Moss] is getting away with it because with most press, people are pussies. They want the celebrity to get to talk with them, and like them. You know, I don’t respect it, I don’t admire it, and I don’t think there’s anything remotely cute about it.”

  https://www.thedailybeast.com/leah-remini-sounds-off-on-hypocrisy-of-scientologist-elisabeth-moss

  Senior Entertainment Editor
  Updated 08.24.19 3:07AM ET / Published 08.23.19 9:11PM ET
  
  Elisabeth Moss, the award-winning star of Hulu’s The Handmaid’s Tale, is a card-carrying Scientologist. It’s a surprising fact, given the actress’s public image as a feminist—owing to her iconic turns as Offred, as well as Peggy Olson on Mad Men—and one that’s eluded most people thanks to her reticence on the subject, and an entertainment press that’s treated the 37-year-old with kid gloves.
  
  Of course, Moss’s continued presence on Handmaid’s, coupled with her outspoken views on women’s reproductive rights, seems strange given how the Church of Scientology has been accused of forcing women into having abortions.
  
  “The hypocrisy is asinine,” Leah Remini tells me of Moss. “[Moss] is getting away with it because with most press, people are pussies. They want the celebrity to get to talk with them, and like them. You know, I don’t respect it, I don’t admire it, and I don’t think there’s anything remotely cute about it.”
  
  Remini was a Scientologist for over 30 years before defecting following the disappearance of her pal Shelly Miscavige, wife of Scientology leader David Miscavige, who hasn’t been seen publicly in years. She’s now the world’s preeminent Scientology whistleblower, and the host of A&E’s Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath, a docuseries showcasing the horror stories of apostates.
  
  When I asked Moss about her Scientology beliefs in March, and whether they run contra to the message of The Handmaid’s Tale, she mostly deflected, saying, “I can only speak to my personal experience and my personal beliefs. One of the things I believe in is freedom of speech. I believe we as humans should be able to critique things. I believe in freedom of the press. I believe in people being able to speak their own opinions. I don’t ever want to take that away from anybody, because that actually is very important to me. At the same time, I should hope that people educate themselves for themselves and form their own opinion, as I have.”
  
  As Remini sees it, this type of non-response is par for the course. “When I was in [Scientology], when I was being asked about Scientology—this was before the internet and social media—there wasn’t that much information on the internet about Scientology. Not like now. I was indoctrinated, just as Elisabeth [Moss], to not read what’s on the internet, to not read anything. Elisabeth has not watched my show. So, she knows nothing about what she’s talking about, she just needs to respond the way Scientology wants her to respond.” (Moss and the Church of Scientology did not respond to requests for comment by time of publication.)
  They can all kiss my fat ass with their bullshit. They can kiss my ass. If they want to ever comment about me publicly, they can do it to my face—and they will never.
  
  “And if you’ve noticed, assholes like Kirstie Alley are calling me a twat and the STAND League is calling me a bigot, and people like Elisabeth Moss are saying what they all say: find out for yourself, don’t believe what’s in the press, you should think for yourself, get a book, that kind of shit,” Remini continued, airing out the Scientologist-actress and Scientology’s attack-dog group.
  
  She then aimed her ire at Giovanni Ribisi, another prominent Hollywood Scientologist. “And you have the Giovannis [Ribisi] of the world saying I sound disgruntled, and I was a friend of Giovanni’s too, and they can all kiss my fat ass with their bullshit. They can kiss my ass,” Remini exclaimed. “If they want to ever comment about me publicly, they can do it to my face—and they will never. Giovanni was supposed to be at an Emmy event and didn’t show up because he knew I would be there. That’s the kind of pussy shit we’re talking about. Kirstie Alley blocked me on Twitter. She wants to call me a twat? She knows where I live.”
  
  
  The most frustrating thing, according to Remini, is how many of these Hollywood Scientologists take it upon themselves to criticize the brave men and women who’ve escaped the church’s clutches and shared their stories of alleged abuse on the Emmy-winning Scientology and the Aftermath.
  
  “This is the type of thing you’re saying about women who are coming forward talking about being raped? I’m tired of it! Enough is enough,” said Remini. “I was probably one of the most loyal Scientologists. I was in 35 years. Mike Rinder, Amy Scobee, Debbie Cook—they were all in longer than me. All of these people have spoken and told you what’s going on. This is the upper-upper management of Scientology that’s talking to you, and you don’t want to listen?!”
  
  The full interview with Leah Remini will run Monday only at The Daily Beast.
  
  
• 
  3

  15 Years Later – Undoing the Undue Influence

  by BottleGate_ in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/15-years-later-undoing-undue-influence/?fbclid=iwar3jbd3eddr06j6mfa0ksnsxhdexuyyqis24cai6ypqq1p0etwdj3jz565c.

  by ruben ortizon august 24th, 2019

  i was a jehovah’s witness from childhood to my late twenties.

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  BottleGate_

  Tried to edit bad cut and paste ,Sorry
  
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  3

  15 Years Later – Undoing the Undue Influence

  by BottleGate_ in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/15-years-later-undoing-undue-influence/?fbclid=iwar3jbd3eddr06j6mfa0ksnsxhdexuyyqis24cai6ypqq1p0etwdj3jz565c.

  by ruben ortizon august 24th, 2019

  i was a jehovah’s witness from childhood to my late twenties.

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  BottleGate_

  https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/15-years-later-undoing-undue-influence/?fbclid=IwAR3jbd3Eddr06j6MfA0KSNSXhDeXUyYQiS24CAI6ypqQ1p0etwDJ3jz565c

  
  

  By Ruben Ortizon August 24th, 2019
  

  I was a Jehovah’s Witness from childhood to my late twenties. I officially disassociated myself from that organization in the year 2004 and here I am 15 years later writing about it. But here’s what is going to blow your minds: I’m here 15 years later writing about this high-control group and the damage done to me was minimal compared to the many Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses I have met since I’ve left, minimal compared to the countless stories you will find online.

  I created a forum for Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses that started in MySpace in 2006 and ran until 2018 on Facebook. I’ve attended and even organized many meet-ups with former members. Through these mediums I learned a lot about brave warriors. Some are acquaintances. Some have become the best friends I could have ever asked for. Others I’ve collaborated with, like the time I helped promote a documentary that a former Jehovah’s Witness friend made. And I’ve had romantic relationships with former members as well. I’ve seen this community go from the few voices to the voice of many.

  What I am saying here is that there is this thing called the Ex-Jehovah’s Witness Community. There may not be some official badge, but I’ve been “in it” for many years and a very vocal component at times.

  If you are leaving a High Control group, I’ve seen it, I’ve felt it, and it’s not easy. Our experiences may vary, but we all left a whole world behind. Whether it was family members, ideology, or friends, we all lost something. To move forward from there takes a tremendous amount of courage.

  15 years later…I’ve picked up on a few things about life after leaving a high-control group from personal experience, from listening to the experiences of others, and from the few nuggets of wisdom you’re gifted for putting a little energy into growing as a person. And now I’d like to share what I’ve learned. They are:

  You are not alone: Quite literally there are many thousands of people who have been in your position of leaving, and there are people that can empathize with your story. You are not the only one. There is nothing like the comradery of someone else saying, “Yes, I know exactly the way you feel.” Whether ousted or leaving by choice, you are thrown into a “world” you don’t’ know. It’s helpful to find others in that world outside of your experience, who get you, who understand your specific struggles. It is incredibly validating and helps you heal.

  You will not be the last: You may have lost friends and family when leaving, but as time passes, more than likely, you will be reunited with others you knew. This is true when it comes to cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their retention rate is extremely low. I mean bad. Wait, squash that, it’s the worst. According to pewresearch.org among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group. It’s a matter of numbers. Expect to see some of your former tribe to join you in this marvelous world and don’t forget to be there for them and to tell them they are not alone.

  You can leave a cult but the cult has to leave you: Leaving a group or being ousted by a group doesn’t mean the group mind-set has left you. I am not talking doctrinal beliefs. I’m talking about how you’re wired. It takes a lot of work to undo the undue influence. Don’t you dare think for a moment that this is something that happens automatically. Little by little, you will start noticing that some of your stances, some of your behaviors all stem from your experience with a coercive group. How could it not? Be willing to unlearn, be willing to grow.

  Don’t be too hard on yourself: Be kind to yourself. Be patient with yourself. It’s not easy trying to find autonomy. The last person who should be hard on you is yourself. Recognize the courage it took to get to the point you’re at now. You’re a rock star for that alone. You chose to be the authentic you and not part of some unduly influenced herd.

  Where there is loss, there is grief: Former members of cults will experience grief when they’ve lost loved ones. The worst part is that one has to grieve over someone who is alive. Grief doesn’t have a time limit. You can’t rush yourself, and you can’t rush others. Don’t expect the loss to never hurt again, but it can and will get better over time.

  If you’re still cooking, hold off on the love thing: What do I mean by cooking? I mean growing. I mean the changing that happens in the time after your exit. You left a cult, but as I pointed out before, maybe the cult hasn’t fully left you. Maybe your views on love, on sex, on relationships aren’t necessarily ones you have had the time to mull over wisely. Maybe it would be a good idea to hold off on the whole relationship thing if you’re still working out who you are.

  Not everything is the cult’s fault: Sometimes it’s hard to decipher how much blame the cult has in someone’s behavior. You may have had a father that would beat you and use what the cult taught him to justify what he did. But another person in the cult may have had a totally different kind of upbringing in his or her family. Maybe it’s not just the cult. Maybe there are very dysfunctional people in these cults that use the cult as a tool to do very harmful things.

  Stop blaming others and own it: Growing up in a cult, there is always a bad guy you can blame. Maybe it’s Satan. Maybe it’s the bad-association neighbor of yours. Maybe it’s the music. In a culture where you can freely point a finger elsewhere, it leaves you with the responsibility to develop the ability to hold yourself accountable for your own mistakes. Mistakes can be an opportunity for growth. But if you’re pointing the finger elsewhere, you’re not owning it. There will be no learning or growth if that’s what you’re doing.

  Learn to disagree: When you come from a group that has the “truth,” and has answers for everything and these questions all have the “right” answers to, there really is no room for debate. But now that you’re out there in this very diverse world, people are going to disagree with you. This could be very uncomfortable at first, and in some cases those feeling will persist. We may be out of the cult, but is that wiring still there? How do we react when someone disagrees with us? Do we lose it? Do we make rash assumptions? Do we run around and smear this person? Do we make it personal, or do we disagree and move forward in a way that’s healthy? One thing helps for sure; accepting that we no longer require that everyone has to agree with us.

  Question Everything: Yes, even all of the above. Who am I to be saying all this, right? Challenge me! But whatever you do, do it under the lens of critical thinking. Learning critical thinking skills is huge. Learning about logical fallacies will keep you from being duped again. Learning about undue influence and how it’s not just the cult you came from. Undue influence permeates society at so many levels.

  People are constantly being influenced. Sometimes it’s good—due influence—and sometimes it’s bad—undue influence. Your learning experience with groups like Open Minds is not the end all. There’s more to come. You have more waking up to do.

  I hope you enjoyed reading some to the things I’ve learned over the last 15 years. And please share it with others if you find it helpful. You are not alone, you are brave, and I wish you all the very best.

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  Ruben Ortiz

  4 Comments

  1. Doda Guyer August 24, 2019 at 6:53 pm - Reply

     Awesome job, Ruben! Great to see you out there and doing well. Looking forward to reading more from you!

  2. Heidi August 24, 2019 at 7:25 pm - Reply

     All this, thank you. I’m out twelve years and still cooking.

  3. Gina August 24, 2019 at 9:02 pm - Reply

     Thanks Ruben! Keep being curious. Keep cooking and growing too!

  4. Christopher August 24, 2019 at 9:26 pm - Reply

     Well written, Ruben. I’ve been out for 9 years and have been shunned by my jw parents the whole time. I have managed to move on with my life and almost put the cult completely behind me, but I still miss my parents and that keeps me from completely letting go of the past.

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