Also Catholic priests are employees of the Catholic Church and can move people around as they see fit. Watchtower doesn't do that.
AbusedandPissed
JoinedPosts by AbusedandPissed
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3
Florida investigating catholic priests, maybe JW victims can join in?
by Bad_Wolf insaw florida is doing special investigation into sex abuse by catholic priests.
i'm sure if some jw's join in they'll add that as well.
https://www.tbo.com/news/florida/florida-investigating-allegations-of-sexual-abuse-by-priests-ap_floridac0e8e01931724afa84838a7fb31b4075.
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Montana jury awards two women $35M in sex abuse lawsuit against Jehovah's Witnesses
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-jury-awards-two-women-m-in-sex-abuse-lawsuit/article_1bcabb7c-7381-574b-a2ba-e011cc0250a6.html.
montana jury awards two women $35m in sex abuse lawsuit against jehovah's witnesses .
a jury in northwestern montana awarded two women $35 million wednesday in their lawsuit against the local jehovah’s witnesses congregation and its worldwide headquarters.. .
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AbusedandPissed
You do know that this is unique because of how Montana Law is written.
Of all the US jurisdictions, states and territories there are only 6 US jurisdictions, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, Montana, New York, Rhode Island, that have similar language. The language prescribes that if a mandatory reporter fails to report, then they can be held civilly liable for proximate damage by not reporting the matter. In all other states the only penalty that is prescribed is criminal. Either prison time or a fine. In those states, state courts have ruled that if the state legislature only prescribes a criminal liability for the violation of a law, then a person doesn't have the right to bring a private cause of action against the person. In other words, in the other jurisdictions, because the law doesn't say you can sue the mandatory reporter, you cannot sue them.
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Montana jury awards two women $35M in sex abuse lawsuit against Jehovah's Witnesses
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-jury-awards-two-women-m-in-sex-abuse-lawsuit/article_1bcabb7c-7381-574b-a2ba-e011cc0250a6.html.
montana jury awards two women $35m in sex abuse lawsuit against jehovah's witnesses .
a jury in northwestern montana awarded two women $35 million wednesday in their lawsuit against the local jehovah’s witnesses congregation and its worldwide headquarters.. .
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AbusedandPissed
It is actually 15 million dollars as punitive damages are maxed at 10 million dollars or 3% of the defendant's net worth whichever is least.
One article does say that there is a challenge to the punitive max that is going in Montana but that case probably won't be resolved before the trial judge enters the final decision.
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What crime should elders report?
by kramer inso, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.
how about criminal fraud if they come across it.
assault on a congregant?.
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AbusedandPissed
Well, when civil authorities carve out an exemption of reporting by clergy isn't it the clergy legal responsibility to follow those laws. If someone has murdered someone a normal person would feel regret and pain over their action. That regret may not compel them to seek out a civil authority but they may seek advice from a spiritual guide whether it be a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, a Jewish rabbi, a Muslim imam or a jw elder. Just like if someone goes and seeks counselling, where that person has had advanced training in their field, there is an expectation that the conversation would be kept confidential.
Also, you have to remember that in most western nations the rules of evidence and the court system is not there to protect the victim or the society but it is there to protect the accused from the abuses of power from the government and law enforcement.
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What crime should elders report?
by kramer inso, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.
how about criminal fraud if they come across it.
assault on a congregant?.
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AbusedandPissed
First of all in most cases there is no law that requires that you report any law, there are very few crimes which requires someone with knowledge to report a crime. Aiding and abiding or a conspiracy after the fact, it involves more than just not reporting a crime it requires overt actions of someone concealing that a crime has been committed.
Second, in many US states, Elders do have priest-penitent privilege. This has been found in Delaware, Vermont and Ohio. The activity falls within that privilege when the elder is acting in their capacity providing spiritual advice or guidance to a parishioner. The idea that it has to be a confession is not listed in most US states laws.
Third, you have to look at the law. In some states, it says that the priest cannot be compelled to give testimony, which might mean that if a priest voluntarily provides this information than they are not being compelled to do anything. But in other states like in New York, the law states that a priest shall not give testimony or provide evidence.
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Do You Think President Trump Will Be Impeached?
by minimus inwhether you like him or not.... it doesn’t matter.
do you think he will be impeached?
?.
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AbusedandPissed
You can flip republican senators way easier than you can flip a Republican congressman. Senators have longer terms and are voted at large which means that it is harder for Trump allies to have to mobilize a larger amount of Trump supporters to vote them out of office. Also, the Senate is a much easier step to the Presidency than from the house, there are plenty of moderate Republican Senators who want to run and will vote for removal because it will make their life easier in a primary and try and bring back the Republican party to a centrist mentality. This going to the far right started 10 years ago it is not all trump and the moderate Republicans are realizing that if they don't stop it now they will lose power maybe now in the next 5 years but once the younger people start to buy homes and vote regularly they will be out forever.
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Do You Think President Trump Will Be Impeached?
by minimus inwhether you like him or not.... it doesn’t matter.
do you think he will be impeached?
?.
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AbusedandPissed
Impeachment is not a legal exercise it is a political one. High Crimes and Misdemeanours doesn't necessarily mean what it is viewed in the standard Penal Code or the US Code. it is pretty much whatever Congress says it is when the member writes up the articles of impeachment.
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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AbusedandPissed
So there is some discussion on numbers compared to the CC. First, you can't say 400 Catholic priests out of 1.3 billion. It is 400 catholic priests out of 414,000, that number has been consistent since the 70s. obviously, some have died some have added. If you want to say the number of 1.3 billion you have to include all those that have committed child abuse who are Catholic. You have to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges.
Second is this thought on the ARC. If you actually listen to the full testimony you will hear that these were also cases involving child pornography, sexting between a minor and an adult or cases that involved witnesses before they were witnesses. So the number of victims even with child pornography is higher because that is easier to achieve in the volume of victims due to the nature of the abuse. Not saying that it is less evil just saying that is a simple fact. So the number of victims that was actually abused by a witness can be lower, even though the witness that watched child pornography reabused the child by watching it. But some of those cases that Watchtower was made aware, Watchtower was informed by the police, so there was no reason to inform the police again. Some were tried and convicted of the abuse and was in prison prior to them becoming a witness so again no reason to tell the police
Also on the rules. I am not sure who I saw it on here but they said that they had to go through child abuse training. Part of the training was that the first step under suspicion is to report it to their supervisor in order to ensure that the law is followed. Even in this discussion, there is talk that RV will inform the police themselves if they suspect a child is still endangered. Aren't both of these things in the new policy by Watchtower.
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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AbusedandPissed
I am in no way saying one is right and the other is wrong or vice versa. Just asking a legitimate question. I know that the RV says that they have spoken with MPs but they are not law enforcement and have no power to investigate a criminal act or prosecute one either.
Clearly they have made a determination to keep matters private if the victim wants it to be kept private and I am no expert in Finnish law but if you say that withholding this information on Watchtower's part is a crime then shouldn't it also be a crime for RV from not going to the police themselves as an organization or individual members in compliance with the law.
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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AbusedandPissed
in fact wouldn't by definition RV have a database of suspected criminals that they have not turned over to the police themselves.