truth book (1981), page 52:.
of the resurrection to heavenly life, the bible says: it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.
*** the watchtower, march 15th 1954 issue, page 187 ***.
I have a question -- Do most scholars believe that Paul wrote his Epistles in the 50's and 60's A.D. or not?
I do beleive so, UD, however there are some of the epistles that are questionable as to who really wrote them, I would have to research them again to findout which ones were in question. but many have been proven to be from the apostle paul
Seedy
truth book (1981), page 52:.
of the resurrection to heavenly life, the bible says: it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.
*** the watchtower, march 15th 1954 issue, page 187 ***.
UD
Here is an article that you may find interesting titled "Writing the New Testament"
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
There are links to other parts of this website that discuss the individual gospels as well
Seedy
i was reading the religion section of the newspaper yesterday and they had this article that purported judas iscariot as a terrorist, citing his last name was somehow connected to a group of assassins...i'm not much of a bible scholar, but to me i would think that from the perspective of the roman and jewish authorities, jesus was seen as the real terrorist and threat to both societies.the article went on to mention that judas may have been trying to incite jesus to further action or at least have him martyred to spark a reaction among the discontented ones...any thoughts?.
sincerely,.
district overbeer
I found this comment by a Rabbi on Judas Iscariot::
Judas is often given the nickname "Iscariot." In some places where English New Testaments have "Iscariot," the Greek text actually has "apo Kariotou" which means "from Karyot." Karyot was the name of a town in Israel, probably the modern site known in Arabic as Karyatein. We thus see that the name Iscariot is derived from the Hebrew "ish Karyot" meaning "man from Karyot." This is in fact the accepted modern Christian understanding of the name. However, in the past, the Christians misunderstood this name and legends arose that Judas was from the town of Sychar, that he was a member of the extremist party known as the Sicarii and that he was from the tribe of Issacher. The most interesting misunderstanding of the name is its early confusion with the word scortea meaning a leather money bag. This led to the New Testament myth that Judas carried such a bag, which in turn led to the belief that he was the treasurer of the apostles.
Seedy
truth book (1981), page 52:.
of the resurrection to heavenly life, the bible says: it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.
*** the watchtower, march 15th 1954 issue, page 187 ***.
UD,
Are you using Josh McDowels books for your references?? Many of the quotes seem almost word for word out of "Evidence That Demands A Verdict".
Seedy
truth book (1981), page 52:.
of the resurrection to heavenly life, the bible says: it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.
*** the watchtower, march 15th 1954 issue, page 187 ***.
Which passage, out of the ones that I posted, is "well accepted as a forgery"?Also, exactly what does "well accepted" mean? Does that mean the majority of scholars and researchers believe that it is a forgery, or does it mean that half of the scholars and researchers believe that it is a forgery, or does it mean that some of the scholars and researchers believe that it is a forgery?
This is the passage that is in question
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.
Even Christian apologists suspect this as being in the least as having been tamperd with, in the book "He walked amung us" by Josh Mcdowell his comments are this way
"a hotly-contested quotation"
Scholarly opinion is divided into three camps: those who accept the entire passage as authentic; those who reject the entire passage as a Christian interpolation into the text (perhaps authored by the fourth-century church historian Eusebius); and those who believe that the original text contained an authentic reference to Jesus but was later embellished by Christian copyists.
"Enough of the writings of [these] authors . . . remain to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ."McKlintock and Strong's Cyclopædia of Theological Literature.Seedy
a while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
Hi Chap,
Paul, Mark and Luke to my knowlege never met Jesus, Paul had a vision or expierence of him somewhere on a road.
James, Matthew, and John Perhaps did, but the writings attributed to them, have been shown to most likely not have been written by any of these men. So we really do not have a written record of an eyewitness.
The only writings that can be shown to be written by a particular person for sure is Pauls writings, Pretty much all the rest are pseudopigraphical, thereby making them useless for Practical evidence of Jesus existance.
Seedy
a while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
Chap,
Did Attis exist? Mithras? Dionysis? Isis and Osiris? You would say they did not, I'm sure, but they had things written on tombs much like what you mentioned about Jesus. During the time of the worship of the aforementioned "Gods" people REALLY beleived they had existed, just like people today believe Jesus existed.
If writings like that, on a tomb/coffin is evidence that someone existed then the other 5 I mentioned existed and that is the evidence
Seedy
a while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
Chap,
Actually no I have not heard of them, but I agree with rem, how does that show he even existed, much less resurected. It really only shows that there was a movement, not a person. I had heard of one reciently found that said something to the effect "James the Brother of Jesus" on it. But....... Yeshuah and the hebrew version of the name James were very common names in the first century in Isreal.
Seedy
was watching a history channel program last night (yeah, i'm a history channel geek!
) and was introduced for the first time in my life to the apocryphal books of the bible?!?!?!?!?
omg....fascinating.
HEY Varuna!!!
How is it? Yeah I've been here for almost 2 years (1 year 9 months), as you can see I don't post a whole lot, just when a subject interests me.
See ya in yahoo my friend
Seedy
truth book (1981), page 52:.
of the resurrection to heavenly life, the bible says: it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.
*** the watchtower, march 15th 1954 issue, page 187 ***.
Yes UnDisfellowshipped, I have read them, and neither of those 2 were alive when Jesus was suppose to have walked the earth. Secondly At least on of those passages, that Josephus wrote, about Jesus is well accepted as a forgery.
Did you ever read Philo of Alexanderia? he did write of "current events" During the time Jesus was suppose to have been alive, he lived during that time, he was a Jew, But....... not a single word about Jesus. Justin Martin even made a comment about the lack of mention in Philo's writtings, He was actually bewildered as to how Philo could have missed any mention of Jesus. There was another Jewish Historian that lived during Jesus time (I'll have to get his name my memory slips me right now but if you want I will get it) that was in Jerusalem when Jesus Triumphant entry was made, he was there when Jesus trial was going on, and the subsequent Nailing up happened, but some how he seemed to have missed it too. One of these 2 I just mentioned was even from Jesus hometown, they were homies, But not a single word.
No writings about Jesus were written until at least 30-40 years (most more then 100 years) after the supposed death of Jesus. The ones you mentioned were not written until after 90ad, that's 60+ years
Seedy
