Posts by Seeker

80

To those who need no purpose in life

by gumby in

jw
friends

after reading the comments from many on the thread "is there a purpose in life" by itsjustme , posted a couple of days ago i am confussed.. i cannot understand how anyone can be content and not believe life has a purpose.. to not be compelled to wonder how all the design around us is just here because who knows why ......totally baffles me.. at this point in my life believe in a creator but have so many unanswered questions.

things do not make sense in the bible.. if i were to come to believe that the bible were a fairytale of myths...i would feel as stupid as i did when finding out the borg was a crock.. i also would be emotionally devastated.. here are some samples of your comments about lifes purpose.

we may have been put here by someone, or we may not have.

Seeker

I disagree with that author who talked about Dawkins. Dawkins may not have the religious definition of the words he used, and that is the straw man the author set out to knock down, but his science is correct.

Don't like his definition of "faith"? Fine, he used the common one that is apparent to the non-believer from observing believers. Naturally, the believer will disagree and say, "Oh, no, faith is much more complex than that," and then run around saying, "They found the ark, they found the ark!" You can understand why a non-believer will look at this behavior and come to the definition of faith that Dawkins did. None of which has any bearing on Dawkins work in the science of evolution. A speech on a totally unrelated subject does not validate or invalidate his work.

His use of the story of Thomas was quibbled with? Fine, he doesn't know the ins and outs of the Bible as thoroughly as the believer does -- something you would expect. So the author siezes on one phrase he disagrees with and turns it into a diatribe against science.

Morality is better based on Christianity? Nonsense. The author's view of how morality developed leaves out the key development. It isn't just a case of matter developing over time, but of observed and enforced behavior. It absolutely is possible to tell right from wrong without resorting to God's checklist, and humanity figured it out long before there ever was a religion. The author ignores this, and pretends that morality is irrelevant to an evolutionist. That's truly dishonest.

Finally, he thinks he finds a contradiction in Dawkins' view of the awe of science, without thinking it through enough to realize that both statements are true: there is awe in the world and despair. No contradiction at all.

This is what I usually find when people try to "answer" evolutionists. They can't tackle the subject itself without looking bad, so they "attack" their opponent itself. According to this author, Dawkins is a Bible-ignorant, contradictory, confused, immoral person. In other words, we certainly can't trust his viewpoint, huh? Well, this is nonsense, and intellectually dishonest on the part of the author. I hope his other writings contain better information.

17

The most violently insane acts in the Bible.

by sleepy in

jw
friends

the bible contains accounts of some horrendously voilent happenings.. some more graphic then many modern films.. this disturbs many when they first read those accounts.. heres one that stood out to me when i first read it.. 1 samuel 15:33 "with that samuel went hacking a'gag to pieces before jehovah in gil'gal".

it wasn't enough just to kill him but samuel hacked him to pieces in front of a large crowd of people.. i wouldn't want to get into a tangle with samuel if he got out of the wrong side of bed that morning.

Seeker

Rex,

You asked about my friends and family, and I said so far in my life I know of none who fit your description. The names you mention, though known to me through these sites, or even friendly with in the case of Jeff, are not who I thought you meant by friends and family.

It remains true that your surmise about my family was dead wrong. You didn't comment on the arrogance of assuming something about me, commenting on it as if you were right, and then not even mentioning it when I showed you your error. That isn't very polite.

You totally misunderstand me. I have no emotional tie to proving you wrong. You don't think things through carefully, so you often make very simple mistakes. My standard operating mode when dealing with you could probably best be described as 'bemused' or occasionally 'annoyed.' That's it. You don't provide much of a target, and you won't until you learn critical thinking. I'll know you have made progress when you stop thinking long-discredited 'I found the Ark!' web sites are factual.

As for your faith, I have no problem with that, and wish you well in it. I will step in and point out errors when you attempt to "prove" your faith, as opposed to being content to just live it. And it would be nice if you stopped trying (and failing) to analyze the rest of us through the narrow shades of your current-relgious-vision. You are no more accurate at that as you were in your JW days when you smugly condemned the very relgious group that you now view as the truth.

It's your way of formulating thoughts and conclusions that is lacking. I couldn't care less about the end results you come up with, and you are welcome to them, but if you describe the means by which you came to those results, and I see flaws in your steps, I will point them out. One day you may come to understand my true motives, which aren't personal against you at all, nor are they designed to protect my beliefs, nor are they designed to emotionally fight against something in my life. Until then, I am glad to be friends with you, and I am thankful for those occasions when you post reasonably to me.

47

Why are witnessess persecuted?

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

why are witnessess persecuted?

most religions out there have this thing against witnesses.

many will do anything to get them banned or to shut their mouths.

Seeker

YoYoMama said:

O.K. so I'm computing all the answers...

Then said:

Basically then Witnesses are persecuted because they teach from the Bible.

Thereby showing she didn't compute the answers...

41

Daily text - 1 Thess 5:19

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

1 thess.

5:19 "do not put out the fire of the spirit.".

commentary:.

Seeker

If you had such great success in Mexico and Argentina, why did you immediately go back to leaving literature for money in such place as soon as it was legally allowed? When was the last time you just used your Bible and nothing else in service?

47

Why are witnessess persecuted?

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

why are witnessess persecuted?

most religions out there have this thing against witnesses.

many will do anything to get them banned or to shut their mouths.

Seeker

First of all, it's not true. A persons religion can be mentioned even if they are not JWs.

Secondly, the reason people want to shut their mouths is because they are perceived as rude. After all, they are coming to your house with a message that boils down to, "Do what we say or God will kill you." That's not going to win any popularity contests.

As for persecutions, many religions are persecuted. You think you are the only religion being acted against in France or Russia? Think again.

For the most part, people never even think about JWs, let alone notice them.

80

To those who need no purpose in life

by gumby in

jw
friends

after reading the comments from many on the thread "is there a purpose in life" by itsjustme , posted a couple of days ago i am confussed.. i cannot understand how anyone can be content and not believe life has a purpose.. to not be compelled to wonder how all the design around us is just here because who knows why ......totally baffles me.. at this point in my life believe in a creator but have so many unanswered questions.

things do not make sense in the bible.. if i were to come to believe that the bible were a fairytale of myths...i would feel as stupid as i did when finding out the borg was a crock.. i also would be emotionally devastated.. here are some samples of your comments about lifes purpose.

we may have been put here by someone, or we may not have.

Seeker

RW,

No reason for us not to remain friends. My comments were not made in frustration or anger, just lack of interest at this time in discussing the particulars of the side topic. I'd be happy to discuss your thoughts when I have more time.

80

To those who need no purpose in life

by gumby in

jw
friends

after reading the comments from many on the thread "is there a purpose in life" by itsjustme , posted a couple of days ago i am confussed.. i cannot understand how anyone can be content and not believe life has a purpose.. to not be compelled to wonder how all the design around us is just here because who knows why ......totally baffles me.. at this point in my life believe in a creator but have so many unanswered questions.

things do not make sense in the bible.. if i were to come to believe that the bible were a fairytale of myths...i would feel as stupid as i did when finding out the borg was a crock.. i also would be emotionally devastated.. here are some samples of your comments about lifes purpose.

we may have been put here by someone, or we may not have.

Seeker

I'm really not in the mood to get into a discussion of evolution. Let me just offer some very brief points to some questions raised:

First of all, I never said anyone didn't understand how the word "theory" is used. I merely offered that as a totally-unrelated example of how scientists can use a word in a way that is different from the way you and I use a word.

Secondly, the boulder in the stream example had nothing to do with evolution, and wasn't intended to imply anything. I merely used it as a totally-unrelated example of something that could be not by design and yet cause non-random events. Since it was said that non-random implies design, I wanted to show an example where that was not true. Again, this has nothing to do with evolution. It is an example that shows that non-random behavior can come about without design being in the picture.

Finally, the purpose of evolution is to perpetuate the species. As The Selfish Gene tells us, we exist to pass our genetic material on to the next generation. Any change that conforms to our environment in a better way is a change that is kept and passed on. As to who made this process start in the first place, evolution does not say, for that is not the point of evolution. If you want to believe God set it in motion, go ahead.

In fact, if you want to believe God has something nice waiting for you after death, go ahead. Nobody is stopping you from believing this. All I was doing was explaining my personal take on things, and only because I was quoted at the beginning of this thread in the first place. No one else has to accept my viewpoint. But if you'd like to fully understand my viewpoint, you're eventually going to have to read the same things I read, and that's why I gave a link for those who wish to learn more. If you dont' want to, don't.

9

Other Fundy Voices

by Francois in

jw
friends

there's a great article by a fundy in the current salon.

here's an excerpt from the top of the story, followed by the link.

enjoy:.

Seeker

>This is why fundamentalism is so dangerous. It's a short leap from thinking a person deserves death to thinking I'm going to kill him.
NOPE, your generalization is a slur on any who hold to the Biblical standards. Again, you mistake fundamentalism for 'cultism', either not knowing or not acknowledging the difference. Slurs are exactly what some ath/ag/liberal use in their demonization of those who oppose their ideas and assertions......

OK, so you haven't made that leap, and probably never will. I didn't say ALL fundamentalists become killers. Just that this sort of thinking is a step in that direction. If you think some people deserve death, you are more likely to kill them than someone who doesn't think that. That's one of the ways a soldier is able to kill -- his normal thinking process has been broken down and then built up so that he is prepared to kill someone who deserves to be killed.

A basic fundamental thought of the Bible is that there are those who are deserving of life and there are those deserving of death. This is not a slur, nor a generalization, but the truth of the Bible. And as we have seen throughout history, in various religions, a few people go over the top from thinking 'God is gonna kill that person' to 'I'm gonna kill that person.' Those who target abortion doctors for death come to mind as just one example of this sort of thinking in action.

I'm not accusing you of this, Rex. All I did was point out how to get to that point it helps to first start thinking that this person deserves death. The Bible teaches this concept when you accept it on fundamentalist terms.

No slur. No generalization. Reality. Fortunately, most Christians never go that far as the extremists do.

7

this just makes me ill

by uncle jimbo in

jw
friends

to set the mood: think of the lavish $1 million dollar chandelier in the stanley theater, think of the lavish settings of patterson, think of any excess bankrolled by those morally bankrupt geezers in crooklyn.. now, any of you catch the back cover of the feb 1, 2002 wt?

the title is "wise in their own way" and it's about these impoverished african kids who donate to the society from their lunch money.. from the article:.

unknown to their parents, emmanuel, michael, and uchei, their nine-year-old sister, have been saving part of their lunch money and putting it into the boxes.

Seeker

I was the one who pointed out about the Stanley theatre. I agree with this thread 100%, but not the use of that one particular example. There isn't much the Society can do about that chandelier, it came with the place, and they are not supposed to sell it according to historical site rules.

There are plenty of examples that can be used. I'd like to see this particular one put to pasture.

80

To those who need no purpose in life

by gumby in

jw
friends

after reading the comments from many on the thread "is there a purpose in life" by itsjustme , posted a couple of days ago i am confussed.. i cannot understand how anyone can be content and not believe life has a purpose.. to not be compelled to wonder how all the design around us is just here because who knows why ......totally baffles me.. at this point in my life believe in a creator but have so many unanswered questions.

things do not make sense in the bible.. if i were to come to believe that the bible were a fairytale of myths...i would feel as stupid as i did when finding out the borg was a crock.. i also would be emotionally devastated.. here are some samples of your comments about lifes purpose.

we may have been put here by someone, or we may not have.

Seeker

I really would suggest reading that Talk Origins link I posted if you would like the answer to these questions. Part of the problem in explaining things is that when scientists use words, they often use them in very precise ways that the rest of us don't. A dictionary definition for a word in common usage is sometimes not the precise definition a scientist means when she uses it.

As a common example, the ordinary way we use "theory" is nothing at all the way a scientist uses it. If you would like to know more about how evolution works, it really goes beyond the scope of this thread. That link will get you started, and the Talk Orgins site as a whole will provide all the answers to this side topic.