i repeat, you have not lived as a jw.
you have not raised your child as one, you have not had to sign a virtual death warrant for your child by refusing blood!!
you have not had to die as many of us have had to die.. you have not walked as we have walked!!!.
You have not had to die as many of us have had to die.
ROFL! Um, just asking, but who are the "us" included in that sentence, and were any of them involved in the typing of it? If so, were they the ghosts of those who died?
Or did you mean that others among JWs died, and you witnessed it, but didn't actually experience death yourself (which is why you were able to post the question)? Hmmm...that would seem to totally undercut your argument though, wouldn't it?
i am interested in the following incident(s)..... ........the witch-hunt at brooklyn bethel in the early seventies when dozens of bethel boys were disfellowshipped after learning of their midnight trysts in the sauna in brooklyn bethel...... if anyone can provide more detail i would be grateful!!!
!
Difficult to believe gangs could rape men? I thought that was old news, the prisons are full of gang rape and that sort of abuse. Also, back in the 1970's, homosexuals didn't have the reputation for being civil and monogamous that is portrayed by the gay movement today. New York was considered a sexual jungle back then. Sorry I'm blurting all of this out and not sugar-coating it.
We're not talking about prison, but the streets of Brooklyn Heights where if a rape occurred, any rape, it would make major headlines. There were occasionally rapes of women there, which I heard about, but I never heard of a rape of a man by "roving gangs of homosexuals." Here is what happened: your friend must have been just as homophobic as you are, Rick, and because there are many homosexuals in Brooklyn Heights, he probably projected his fears onto them. He probably assumed that there were gangs out to get him if he wasn't careful. This is a laughable idea if you understand human nature. But if you and your friend want to curse the idea of homosexuality by your prejudicial remarks, I guess you can believe the stories you pass back and forth between each other instead of common sense.
I'm telling you your friend was wrong. His imagination went wild, as yours is wont to do.
greetings island woman,.
i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.
thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.
Can anyone say character assination?
No, but that particular typo really struck me funny. This would be a derrier with a real personality, then?
greetings island woman,.
i see you had some words for me at the time i took a short sabbatical from this board.
thought i'd address a few of your thoughts.. :ignorance comes in many forms.
Gee, all my favorite posters in one thread...arguing with each other.
I have no intention of getting involved in this discussion other than to address two things, one to Julie, and one to everyone else:
TO EVERYONE ELSE: Julie knows more about JW life than some long-time JWs. I'm constantly forgetting that she was never one herself. There is no way her opinions would have changed about things had she been a JW for twenty years. Sometimes I think she was anyway.
TO JULIE: I've been there, my friend. There is something about online arguments that lends itself to this sort of thread. Perhaps the easy access to precise words, while simultaneously allowing for misunderstood words with the emotional context removed. In any case, certain types of discussions are no-win situations. I tried for years to figure out a way to solve these types of threads. I never could find it, and finally decided to just steer clear of them. I suggest this course of action for you in the future. Friendly advice from a friend. You can't please everyone, and sometimes there will be people who will take a disliking to you without any rational reason. There is no way to avoid this completely, so the best course is to accept this truism and move on in life.
i am interested in the following incident(s)..... ........the witch-hunt at brooklyn bethel in the early seventies when dozens of bethel boys were disfellowshipped after learning of their midnight trysts in the sauna in brooklyn bethel...... if anyone can provide more detail i would be grateful!!!
!
Rick,
That story told you was absurd and false. Those of us in New York City at the time never heard of roving gang of homosexuals raping young men, as if such a thing would happen! Absurd.
No, the homosexual behavior occured within Bethel's walls, between Bethelites. Nobody was forced into anything.
i am interested in the following incident(s)..... ........the witch-hunt at brooklyn bethel in the early seventies when dozens of bethel boys were disfellowshipped after learning of their midnight trysts in the sauna in brooklyn bethel...... if anyone can provide more detail i would be grateful!!!
!
I can confirm these stories. I knew a Bethelite who went to a brother's room for a party. During the part things got out of hand and sexual activity began between a number of the young men. This Bethelite was not into homosexual activity, felt very uncomfortable and surprised by what was happening. At that moment another brother walked in, took one look and started taking names. Everyone involved was kicked out of Bethel, including the Bethelite who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He felt terrible, and we all felt bad for him, but out he went.
This was in the days before locks on the doors. Anyway, this sort of thing (hidden homosexual activity) has gone on at Bethel at times.
with so many having been raised in the truuf.... do any of you now feel that due to the abuse and horros of being raised that way that you now need to work at building positive memories of things..like christmas??.
do others accuse you of going overboard with the holiday celebrations??.
do you look for opportunitys to have a party??.
I'm so used to skipping holidays, I don't miss them now. I like Christmas, but don't care much about it either way. Same thing with birthdays. I barely notice that I'm having one, and couldn't care less about that fact.
I have the freedom to do whatever I want, but every time I celebrate Christmas or birthdays it just doesn't do that much for me, so I don't much care about them.
the u.s. government is returning john walker to the states for trial.
what do you consider an appropriate punishment for his mis-deeds?.
i think, he should be[if found guilty]stipped of his citizenship and returned to somewhere in the mideast to spend the rest of his life,with no possibility to return to the u.s. for any reason.
Just one question if you are to be in Jail where would you like to be in prison in the USA or n an Arab-Muslim nation?
Oh, the USA, absolutely. But that's why what you said was propaganda, for you took the above question then implied how soft it is in US prisons. US prisons may be better, but both experiences are awful. Neither one is a country club in any sense of the word. Only white collar criminals get that treatment, and Walker ain't that.
As for living in Yemen and Afghanistan, how much money do you think it takes to live there? It's dirt-cheap! And don't forget, he went there to be trained, so his expenses were probably being covered by his trainers. You know how JWs love to brag how they will take care of their own when visiting around the world? Well, I'm sure Muslims do the same thing, and the Muslims over there were probably only too happy to care for this American who showed such genuine interest in his Islamic studies. And since his parents had no idea where he was, they clearly weren't supporting him financially. He must have made his own way or depended on the charity of his Muslim brethren.
what a bunch of wall paper.
99% of the people on this forum are hopelessly believers in one sided non-sense.
i am tired of the abusive language that has been dumped on me by otherwise respectable participants.
proplog2,
I agree that we need to make sure false accusations are not acted upon. I don't think false accusations happen that often, but I also don't believe it never happens. There are too many vindictive ex-spouses out there willing to instill a false idea into a child for it to never happen.
However, you cannot deny that there is a real problem in the WTS on this issue. Those of us who have seen the problem directly know that reforms are needed. Just making one change, having the person who brings to accusation of abuse go directly to the police and not the elders, would make a big difference. The police are in touch with experts on the subject, unlike the elders, and can help ferret out the tiny percentage of false accusations while simultaneously punishing the guilty. Some of us have seen admitted molestors get away with a light sentence from the elders while the police were deliberately kept out of the picture in order not to "put a bad light on Witnesses." Enough!
from an article about tonight's state of the union speech by bush:.
he proposed a new homeland security corps of emergency respondents to disasters and an expansion of the peace corps to more than double its size -- to 15,000 volunteers.
one goal will be to encourage development and education in the islamic world.
Julie,
Good historical allusion. Bush is running his next campaign on the war, thinking that his new-found popularity will carry the day. His dad thought the same thing...
This "war" on terrorism will turn out to be just like the "war" on drugs, something that began with high ideals and over the years will degenerate into a source of funding for law officials, an excuse to crack down on the rights of citizens, and a chance to increase the prison population will all sort of collateral, non-dangerous "criminals" who the government doesn't like. Oh yeah, it will never end, either.
Twenty years from now, as President uh Nash takes office and gives her first State of the Union speech, one of the things she will say is how important our "war on terrorism" is. Never mind the domestic problems, we have a war to fight!
