Hey little sister,
you made my eyeballs hurt. I know you like the color purple and all, but if you change your type to black it will help old guys like me be able to read the words you have worked so hard on.
Just a small suggestion.
Dave
seven006
JoinedPosts by seven006
-
12
Tacking??? WHAT???
by VeniceIT inwell i was sick and tired of hearing the wts tacking anaolgy to solver everything so i looked it up online!!
i did this last summer and hadn't looked at till today, just thought i'd share!.
i'm working on putting stuff together and actually getting a website but here's a page for now!.
-
-
-
13
Wouldn't have so many converts huh.
by esther inok, so i got my idea from bugeye's wife's thread.
if the wtbts decided to change its doctrine so that the age for baptism was 30 years, the same age as john and jesus, would everyone who was baptised under that age have their baptism invalidated?
if so, what would happen to any disfellowshipped ones whose baptism was invalid?
-
-
seven006
<<Now that I have reconsidered, the baptism wouldn't stand. So you couldn't be considered a JW again. Anyway, just think of how many JWs could be helped because now they could listen to the information we have.>>
OK, I see that you are somewhat serious about this. I myself was kidding, but I'll try to be serious for a minute just for you. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Nope, waited a whole minute and couldn't think if anything serious to say about it. I deal only with reality and "what if's" are hard for me to work with. BUT, if they did change things Id still think they are goofy. The only thing they do that is half way acceptable to me is, they drink. They drink a lot. At least the elders I hung out with did. I had to quit the religion just to sober up.
I'll try and think of something serious to add tomorrow. Right now I'm in my yellow ducky jammies with bunny feet eating a astronot pop and watching Becker. That's all American stuff, I will have to explain later.
Does the water in the toilet really swirl counterclockwise down there?
Dave
-
50
When JWs come here
by larc insome thoughts about jws who come here:.
i have been here for six months now.
in that time, i have noticed a certain pattern to the conduct of jws who come here and are true believers.
-
-
seven006
Oh shit! It posted 3 times. Sorry guys, the debil made me do it by accident.
Dave
-
50
When JWs come here
by larc insome thoughts about jws who come here:.
i have been here for six months now.
in that time, i have noticed a certain pattern to the conduct of jws who come here and are true believers.
-
-
seven006
<Dave, I appreciate your mild and respectful manner of conduct on this forum.>
Yadirf
Thank you for saying that. I have used less than mature communication techniques in forums before but I find that I can have a lot more interesting conversations with people I don't know by offering respect in my responses and comments. It's not near as much fun but sometimes points are better shared in a mature manner.
I have always had a kind of special ability to see things that most people miss and I tend read a little more between the lines. Several of the people I like and consider friends have swapped insults with you and as much as I would like to join in, I guess I don't see you in the same light. I love to make jokes and have fun as much as the next person but I try and remember to have a persona that comes a little closer to my favorite quote. That is "you can always judge the character of a person by the way they treat others that can do noting for them at all."
As far as your last question to me I will address that one first. No, I do not believe in the bible. Logic and reasoning keep me from doing that. I have numerous issues with the bible as mankind's book of rules as well as it being a less than accurate record of the history of man. After leaving the JW's I spent may years searching for answers. My conclusions I pretty much keep to myself in that I think each and every person has to look and define their own answers. I could write volumes on specific issues but to be honest, I have a lot more interesting things to do with my time.
I will give you a few things that keep me from believing the bible. First I find it hard to believe that all of humankind is doomed because a talking snake told a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit. In each and every test that the God of the bible gives his so-called children I ask myself if, I as a father would do that to my own children. The answer for the majority comes up a big NO. I do not need to test my kids to see weather they love me or not. I do not play games with their lives. The Adam and eve story has many holes in it. The story about Abraham and Isaac to me is a story that can only be described in a psychological terms as a test to reinforce someone's incredible insecurities. If it was at all true then God must be a very insecure being.
Those are just two of many bible stories that I have issues with. If you can put your name in the place of gods name and see if YOU would do the same things as he supposedly did you might start to cringe a little. I did. I also have taken the history of the earth according to the best archeological findings and I began to ask questions about God before the Adam and eve story. I look at the dinosaurs and have thought to myself, why would a loving caring God create such vicious creatures? What was his purpose? They roamed the land tearing each other to threads with horrific power and merciless execution. Combine that with the story of how God is supposed to dispose of those who don't kill their own children in an example of their love for him and you have my feeling about the bible and its content. It isn't logical or reasonable. If God is a perfect being then he should be both those things.
If there is a God, and that God is the one described in the bible, then I want noting to do with the psychopath. If he dose indeed exist and he takes acceptation in my thinking and wants to kill me for trying to be a loving and caring father and working hard to be the best person I can, then so be it. I just think that if there is a God, he is a lot more intelligent and a lot less arrogant then the one the bible describes. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg of the many issues I have.
As far as the JW's go in my thinking I did not have the luxury of having them come to my door and try and sell their wares to me. I grew up in the religion. I found that I was having to lie to myself constantly to give the answers to my parents about how I really felt about things in relation to what they wanted to hear and considered the appropriate answer. I had several questions as a young child that went unanswered or answered with the question "how do you think Jehovah feels about that"? I took that question as my only answer to life's questions for many years.
In high school I started secretly dating a beautiful young lady that just happened to be a Baptist. After secretly having her as my girlfriend for six or seven mounts the topic of religion came up. I told her that the JW's had the right religion and they could prove anything they say with the bible. She told me that they manufactured their own bible to fit their needs. I then repeated something that I had several times by not only brothers in the congregation but also by the circuit overseer. That statement was the New Worlds translation was considered to be the most accurate translation in relation to the original writings according to the Smithsonian Institution.
She took this comment to her youth minister and he along with her youth group wrote the Smithsonian and the reply they got back blew me away. According to them, the NWT was not only far from the closest translation but was considered one of the most inaccurate translations they had ever had the chance to examine. As I was taught, I just trusted in God and left their obvious lie to him. It wasn't until over ten years later that comment came back to kick me in the butt.
At age 27 I owned a successful art material company manufacturing and selling various products that I invented and also imported. I was also at that time considered one of the top illustrators and experts in several artistic disciplines. The Watchtower society not only bought some of my equipment but asked me to come back to Brooklyn and help their art and graphics departments out with both instruction and consulting. I did just that. I went back and was at first treated like royalty. I was put up in one of their nicer apartments and I even was given the same brother to escort me back and forth to the administration offices as Ray Franz. I met and walked with Ray for a little over a week. I was in JW heaven. The longer I was there the more shocked I was at what I saw. I have consulted for may companies in my courier but I have never been in a situation that I considered as poorly ran and organized as the watchtower society.
The hidden animosity between the people in the graphics, illustration and photography department was amazing. Everyone keep it to themselves but when they were told I was there to find problems and try and correct them they let it all out. The feeling of superiority by some individuals was mind boggling. The hiding of true feelings was like listening to confessions of mentally abused prisoners. I would ask the people why they didn't express their concerns about their problems and they all said the same thing. So and So is an elder and he is in charge of this and that and it is considered improper to complain. Those who were in charge of different departments were not only inept for their positions but used their positions to gain special considerations and cause misery in may peoples lives.
Out side of the art department I learned about many things that simply broke my heart. From Governing body members living like kings to one "room mate" of one of the governing body being kicked out for getting newly arrived brothers drunk in his room and sodomizing them. The unsuspecting and gullible young brothers were then told they would have to leave Bethel in shame and be disfellowshipped for turning him in. I was told this by the new room mate of that particular governing body member who I went to visit because he use to go to the same congregation I did. I was sick.
Toward the end of my visit I was taken up to the administration office one floor above the art department. I was escorted into a locked room that was what some called a secret library. Their intention was to use my graphic skills for possibly helping them better miniaturize some of their publications for smuggling into other countries as well as an art project I was helping another brother on. I was asked not to talk to anyone about what I saw in that library and for the most part I have not. I made that promise and I have tried to keep it. All I am comfortable telling you is what the JW's teach and what they began their religion with are so far apart you wouldn't recognize the two standing right next to each other.
The next day after telling the truth about what I thought about the problems between the different departments where, I was told that my recommendations were impossible to comply with because of the positions the department heads held. So in my opinion my work and my "asked for" opinions were a total waste of time. I was greeted at the airport like visiting royalty and I was driven back to the airport by a mechanic from the societies motor pool. I don't think I met one single person there that was truly happy. I saw lies, deceit, back stabbing, many attempts to hide things that were accepted but frowned upon. Things that if happened in normal society would end up with several people in jail.
It was less than a month later I left not only the religion but my family and friends I had for the majority of my life.
So in response to me having the joy of first finding out what the JW's teach about love and joy. No. I never experienced that.
I respect anyone's belief in the aspect that I respect their right to have them. I am a member of no religion but consider myself a very spiritual person. I don't know if there is a God or not but if there is I would hope he judges me by my heart instead of my signing up with any group. If not, then that's life. To be honest I don't really believe in God. But I do think that believing or not believing is not important. Quoting scriptures to me to make a point does noting in trying to enlighten me in any respect. The do un to others and be nice teachings I find in the bible I also find in many of the religions I have had the chance to look into. But all the rest of the stories and God fearing tests and games that are written about I just can't buy.
I hope this gives you a little idea where I am coming from. I appreciate your style in corresponding with me and I hope we can continue in this manner.
Bite me,
Dave
Sorry about the "bite me", Iv been way to serious in this post and I just needed to end it in a manner that is a little more fun and indicative to this forum. I hate all this serious shit.
-
50
When JWs come here
by larc insome thoughts about jws who come here:.
i have been here for six months now.
in that time, i have noticed a certain pattern to the conduct of jws who come here and are true believers.
-
-
seven006
<Dave, I appreciate your mild and respectful manner of conduct on this forum.>
Yadirf
Thank you for saying that. I have used less than mature communication techniques in forums before but I find that I can have a lot more interesting conversations with people I don't know by offering respect in my responses and comments. It's not near as much fun but sometimes points are better shared in a mature manner.
I have always had a kind of special ability to see things that most people miss and I tend read a little more between the lines. Several of the people I like and consider friends have swapped insults with you and as much as I would like to join in, I guess I don't see you in the same light. I love to make jokes and have fun as much as the next person but I try and remember to have a persona that comes a little closer to my favorite quote. That is "you can always judge the character of a person by the way they treat others that can do noting for them at all."
As far as your last question to me I will address that one first. No, I do not believe in the bible. Logic and reasoning keep me from doing that. I have numerous issues with the bible as mankind's book of rules as well as it being a less than accurate record of the history of man. After leaving the JW's I spent may years searching for answers. My conclusions I pretty much keep to myself in that I think each and every person has to look and define their own answers. I could write volumes on specific issues but to be honest, I have a lot more interesting things to do with my time.
I will give you a few things that keep me from believing the bible. First I find it hard to believe that all of humankind is doomed because a talking snake told a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit. In each and every test that the God of the bible gives his so-called children I ask myself if, I as a father would do that to my own children. The answer for the majority comes up a big NO. I do not need to test my kids to see weather they love me or not. I do not play games with their lives. The Adam and eve story has many holes in it. The story about Abraham and Isaac to me is a story that can only be described in a psychological terms as a test to reinforce someone's incredible insecurities. If it was at all true then God must be a very insecure being.
Those are just two of many bible stories that I have issues with. If you can put your name in the place of gods name and see if YOU would do the same things as he supposedly did you might start to cringe a little. I did. I also have taken the history of the earth according to the best archeological findings and I began to ask questions about God before the Adam and eve story. I look at the dinosaurs and have thought to myself, why would a loving caring God create such vicious creatures? What was his purpose? They roamed the land tearing each other to threads with horrific power and merciless execution. Combine that with the story of how God is supposed to dispose of those who don't kill their own children in an example of their love for him and you have my feeling about the bible and its content. It isn't logical or reasonable. If God is a perfect being then he should be both those things.
If there is a God, and that God is the one described in the bible, then I want noting to do with the psychopath. If he dose indeed exist and he takes acceptation in my thinking and wants to kill me for trying to be a loving and caring father and working hard to be the best person I can, then so be it. I just think that if there is a God, he is a lot more intelligent and a lot less arrogant then the one the bible describes. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg of the many issues I have.
As far as the JW's go in my thinking I did not have the luxury of having them come to my door and try and sell their wares to me. I grew up in the religion. I found that I was having to lie to myself constantly to give the answers to my parents about how I really felt about things in relation to what they wanted to hear and considered the appropriate answer. I had several questions as a young child that went unanswered or answered with the question "how do you think Jehovah feels about that"? I took that question as my only answer to life's questions for many years.
In high school I started secretly dating a beautiful young lady that just happened to be a Baptist. After secretly having her as my girlfriend for six or seven mounts the topic of religion came up. I told her that the JW's had the right religion and they could prove anything they say with the bible. She told me that they manufactured their own bible to fit their needs. I then repeated something that I had several times by not only brothers in the congregation but also by the circuit overseer. That statement was the New Worlds translation was considered to be the most accurate translation in relation to the original writings according to the Smithsonian Institution.
She took this comment to her youth minister and he along with her youth group wrote the Smithsonian and the reply they got back blew me away. According to them, the NWT was not only far from the closest translation but was considered one of the most inaccurate translations they had ever had the chance to examine. As I was taught, I just trusted in God and left their obvious lie to him. It wasn't until over ten years later that comment came back to kick me in the butt.
At age 27 I owned a successful art material company manufacturing and selling various products that I invented and also imported. I was also at that time considered one of the top illustrators and experts in several artistic disciplines. The Watchtower society not only bought some of my equipment but asked me to come back to Brooklyn and help their art and graphics departments out with both instruction and consulting. I did just that. I went back and was at first treated like royalty. I was put up in one of their nicer apartments and I even was given the same brother to escort me back and forth to the administration offices as Ray Franz. I met and walked with Ray for a little over a week. I was in JW heaven. The longer I was there the more shocked I was at what I saw. I have consulted for may companies in my courier but I have never been in a situation that I considered as poorly ran and organized as the watchtower society.
The hidden animosity between the people in the graphics, illustration and photography department was amazing. Everyone keep it to themselves but when they were told I was there to find problems and try and correct them they let it all out. The feeling of superiority by some individuals was mind boggling. The hiding of true feelings was like listening to confessions of mentally abused prisoners. I would ask the people why they didn't express their concerns about their problems and they all said the same thing. So and So is an elder and he is in charge of this and that and it is considered improper to complain. Those who were in charge of different departments were not only inept for their positions but used their positions to gain special considerations and cause misery in may peoples lives.
Out side of the art department I learned about many things that simply broke my heart. From Governing body members living like kings to one "room mate" of one of the governing body being kicked out for getting newly arrived brothers drunk in his room and sodomizing them. The unsuspecting and gullible young brothers were then told they would have to leave Bethel in shame and be disfellowshipped for turning him in. I was told this by the new room mate of that particular governing body member who I went to visit because he use to go to the same congregation I did. I was sick.
Toward the end of my visit I was taken up to the administration office one floor above the art department. I was escorted into a locked room that was what some called a secret library. Their intention was to use my graphic skills for possibly helping them better miniaturize some of their publications for smuggling into other countries as well as an art project I was helping another brother on. I was asked not to talk to anyone about what I saw in that library and for the most part I have not. I made that promise and I have tried to keep it. All I am comfortable telling you is what the JW's teach and what they began their religion with are so far apart you wouldn't recognize the two standing right next to each other.
The next day after telling the truth about what I thought about the problems between the different departments where, I was told that my recommendations were impossible to comply with because of the positions the department heads held. So in my opinion my work and my "asked for" opinions were a total waste of time. I was greeted at the airport like visiting royalty and I was driven back to the airport by a mechanic from the societies motor pool. I don't think I met one single person there that was truly happy. I saw lies, deceit, back stabbing, many attempts to hide things that were accepted but frowned upon. Things that if happened in normal society would end up with several people in jail.
It was less than a month later I left not only the religion but my family and friends I had for the majority of my life.
So in response to me having the joy of first finding out what the JW's teach about love and joy. No. I never experienced that.
I respect anyone's belief in the aspect that I respect their right to have them. I am a member of no religion but consider myself a very spiritual person. I don't know if there is a God or not but if there is I would hope he judges me by my heart instead of my signing up with any group. If not, then that's life. To be honest I don't really believe in God. But I do think that believing or not believing is not important. Quoting scriptures to me to make a point does noting in trying to enlighten me in any respect. The do un to others and be nice teachings I find in the bible I also find in many of the religions I have had the chance to look into. But all the rest of the stories and God fearing tests and games that are written about I just can't buy.
I hope this gives you a little idea where I am coming from. I appreciate your style in corresponding with me and I hope we can continue in this manner.
Bite me,
Dave
Sorry about the "bite me", Iv been way to serious in this post and I just needed to end it in a manner that is a little more fun and indicative to this forum. I hate all this serious shit.
-
50
When JWs come here
by larc insome thoughts about jws who come here:.
i have been here for six months now.
in that time, i have noticed a certain pattern to the conduct of jws who come here and are true believers.
-
-
seven006
<Dave, I appreciate your mild and respectful manner of conduct on this forum.>
Yadirf
Thank you for saying that. I have used less than mature communication techniques in forums before but I find that I can have a lot more interesting conversations with people I don't know by offering respect in my responses and comments. It's not near as much fun but sometimes points are better shared in a mature manner.
I have always had a kind of special ability to see things that most people miss and I tend read a little more between the lines. Several of the people I like and consider friends have swapped insults with you and as much as I would like to join in, I guess I don't see you in the same light. I love to make jokes and have fun as much as the next person but I try and remember to have a persona that comes a little closer to my favorite quote. That is "you can always judge the character of a person by the way they treat others that can do noting for them at all."
As far as your last question to me I will address that one first. No, I do not believe in the bible. Logic and reasoning keep me from doing that. I have numerous issues with the bible as mankind's book of rules as well as it being a less than accurate record of the history of man. After leaving the JW's I spent may years searching for answers. My conclusions I pretty much keep to myself in that I think each and every person has to look and define their own answers. I could write volumes on specific issues but to be honest, I have a lot more interesting things to do with my time.
I will give you a few things that keep me from believing the bible. First I find it hard to believe that all of humankind is doomed because a talking snake told a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit. In each and every test that the God of the bible gives his so-called children I ask myself if, I as a father would do that to my own children. The answer for the majority comes up a big NO. I do not need to test my kids to see weather they love me or not. I do not play games with their lives. The Adam and eve story has many holes in it. The story about Abraham and Isaac to me is a story that can only be described in a psychological terms as a test to reinforce someone's incredible insecurities. If it was at all true then God must be a very insecure being.
Those are just two of many bible stories that I have issues with. If you can put your name in the place of gods name and see if YOU would do the same things as he supposedly did you might start to cringe a little. I did. I also have taken the history of the earth according to the best archeological findings and I began to ask questions about God before the Adam and eve story. I look at the dinosaurs and have thought to myself, why would a loving caring God create such vicious creatures? What was his purpose? They roamed the land tearing each other to threads with horrific power and merciless execution. Combine that with the story of how God is supposed to dispose of those who don't kill their own children in an example of their love for him and you have my feeling about the bible and its content. It isn't logical or reasonable. If God is a perfect being then he should be both those things.
If there is a God, and that God is the one described in the bible, then I want noting to do with the psychopath. If he dose indeed exist and he takes acceptation in my thinking and wants to kill me for trying to be a loving and caring father and working hard to be the best person I can, then so be it. I just think that if there is a God, he is a lot more intelligent and a lot less arrogant then the one the bible describes. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg of the many issues I have.
As far as the JW's go in my thinking I did not have the luxury of having them come to my door and try and sell their wares to me. I grew up in the religion. I found that I was having to lie to myself constantly to give the answers to my parents about how I really felt about things in relation to what they wanted to hear and considered the appropriate answer. I had several questions as a young child that went unanswered or answered with the question "how do you think Jehovah feels about that"? I took that question as my only answer to life's questions for many years.
In high school I started secretly dating a beautiful young lady that just happened to be a Baptist. After secretly having her as my girlfriend for six or seven mounts the topic of religion came up. I told her that the JW's had the right religion and they could prove anything they say with the bible. She told me that they manufactured their own bible to fit their needs. I then repeated something that I had several times by not only brothers in the congregation but also by the circuit overseer. That statement was the New Worlds translation was considered to be the most accurate translation in relation to the original writings according to the Smithsonian Institution.
She took this comment to her youth minister and he along with her youth group wrote the Smithsonian and the reply they got back blew me away. According to them, the NWT was not only far from the closest translation but was considered one of the most inaccurate translations they had ever had the chance to examine. As I was taught, I just trusted in God and left their obvious lie to him. It wasn't until over ten years later that comment came back to kick me in the butt.
At age 27 I owned a successful art material company manufacturing and selling various products that I invented and also imported. I was also at that time considered one of the top illustrators and experts in several artistic disciplines. The Watchtower society not only bought some of my equipment but asked me to come back to Brooklyn and help their art and graphics departments out with both instruction and consulting. I did just that. I went back and was at first treated like royalty. I was put up in one of their nicer apartments and I even was given the same brother to escort me back and forth to the administration offices as Ray Franz. I met and walked with Ray for a little over a week. I was in JW heaven. The longer I was there the more shocked I was at what I saw. I have consulted for may companies in my courier but I have never been in a situation that I considered as poorly ran and organized as the watchtower society.
The hidden animosity between the people in the graphics, illustration and photography department was amazing. Everyone keep it to themselves but when they were told I was there to find problems and try and correct them they let it all out. The feeling of superiority by some individuals was mind boggling. The hiding of true feelings was like listening to confessions of mentally abused prisoners. I would ask the people why they didn't express their concerns about their problems and they all said the same thing. So and So is an elder and he is in charge of this and that and it is considered improper to complain. Those who were in charge of different departments were not only inept for their positions but used their positions to gain special considerations and cause misery in may peoples lives.
Out side of the art department I learned about many things that simply broke my heart. From Governing body members living like kings to one "room mate" of one of the governing body being kicked out for getting newly arrived brothers drunk in his room and sodomizing them. The unsuspecting and gullible young brothers were then told they would have to leave Bethel in shame and be disfellowshipped for turning him in. I was told this by the new room mate of that particular governing body member who I went to visit because he use to go to the same congregation I did. I was sick.
Toward the end of my visit I was taken up to the administration office one floor above the art department. I was escorted into a locked room that was what some called a secret library. Their intention was to use my graphic skills for possibly helping them better miniaturize some of their publications for smuggling into other countries as well as an art project I was helping another brother on. I was asked not to talk to anyone about what I saw in that library and for the most part I have not. I made that promise and I have tried to keep it. All I am comfortable telling you is what the JW's teach and what they began their religion with are so far apart you wouldn't recognize the two standing right next to each other.
The next day after telling the truth about what I thought about the problems between the different departments where, I was told that my recommendations were impossible to comply with because of the positions the department heads held. So in my opinion my work and my "asked for" opinions were a total waste of time. I was greeted at the airport like visiting royalty and I was driven back to the airport by a mechanic from the societies motor pool. I don't think I met one single person there that was truly happy. I saw lies, deceit, back stabbing, many attempts to hide things that were accepted but frowned upon. Things that if happened in normal society would end up with several people in jail.
It was less than a month later I left not only the religion but my family and friends I had for the majority of my life.
So in response to me having the joy of first finding out what the JW's teach about love and joy. No. I never experienced that.
I respect anyone's belief in the aspect that I respect their right to have them. I am a member of no religion but consider myself a very spiritual person. I don't know if there is a God or not but if there is I would hope he judges me by my heart instead of my signing up with any group. If not, then that's life. To be honest I don't really believe in God. But I do think that believing or not believing is not important. Quoting scriptures to me to make a point does noting in trying to enlighten me in any respect. The do un to others and be nice teachings I find in the bible I also find in many of the religions I have had the chance to look into. But all the rest of the stories and God fearing tests and games that are written about I just can't buy.
I hope this gives you a little idea where I am coming from. I appreciate your style in corresponding with me and I hope we can continue in this manner.
Bite me,
Dave
Sorry about the "bite me", Iv been way to serious in this post and I just needed to end it in a manner that is a little more fun and indicative to this forum. I hate all this serious shit.
-
25
Good Afternoon!
by VeniceIT inwell i know this isn't like my usual posts but bear with me.
i know there are blowups on this board, and i guess not everyone gets a long 100%, 100% of the time, but we all have a bond that keeps bringing us back--pain.
we here have all suffered at the hands a merciless cult, and i know many have sufferd more then the rest of us can ever comprehend.. i miss my family and friends, somedays it's almost more then i can bear, but get by.
-
-
seven006
PS: I see you brought Joel with you Ven. Hell...there goes the neighborhood!
Surfs up Dude!
Dave
-
25
Good Afternoon!
by VeniceIT inwell i know this isn't like my usual posts but bear with me.
i know there are blowups on this board, and i guess not everyone gets a long 100%, 100% of the time, but we all have a bond that keeps bringing us back--pain.
we here have all suffered at the hands a merciless cult, and i know many have sufferd more then the rest of us can ever comprehend.. i miss my family and friends, somedays it's almost more then i can bear, but get by.
-
-
seven006
Damn it Ven! (((((((( Ven ))))))).
Those are big brother hugs at a respectable distance. I hate little internet smiley faces and cyber hug symbols. I felt I had to do this or you might think I didn't like you. I can't have that.
This is going to really hurt but, I think the world of you, your a great kid.
I went to see Pearl Harbor with two of my sons on Sunday. I took the extra tissues like you said and they really came in handy. My 15 year old spilt his coke all over my leg. I thought the movie was OK. The invasion part was fairly well done but they could have cut out the love story stuff, It's been done a thousand times.
My pants thank you for the tissue suggestion.
Big hug,
Your pal,Dave
-
13
Wouldn't have so many converts huh.
by esther inok, so i got my idea from bugeye's wife's thread.
if the wtbts decided to change its doctrine so that the age for baptism was 30 years, the same age as john and jesus, would everyone who was baptised under that age have their baptism invalidated?
if so, what would happen to any disfellowshipped ones whose baptism was invalid?
-
-
seven006
Esther,
Please don't give the JW's any ideas. If they start changing things and revoke the disfellowshipped status for those who were baptized under the age of 30, that might mean I would wind up being a JW in their eyes again. I don't think I could handle that. I like being disfellowshipped. Iv gotten really good at it. Please be careful.
Dave
-
50
When JWs come here
by larc insome thoughts about jws who come here:.
i have been here for six months now.
in that time, i have noticed a certain pattern to the conduct of jws who come here and are true believers.
-
-
seven006
DAVE QUOTE: but by just a little use of basic reading skills and the
ability to put two and two together someone could quickly figure out
what it's all about.YADIRF QUOTE Response: Then there isn't much of a reason for not callin’ it what it actually is, is there? … a Discussion Forum for ex-JWs to talk about their former religion.
Dave Response: Since you realize that and continue to post here you must then consider yourself an exJW or a very confused back sliding JW. Which is it?
____
DAVE QUOTE: I'm sure you are more than familiar of this technique, you
have used it yourself many times.YADIRF QUOTE Response: That's not true.
Dave Response: That's it? That's your whole entire argument? I spent 22
years going door to door and was accompanied by hundreds of different
JW's in that amount of time. The presentations and programed response to the question "What is your purpose for coming to my door" was the same at all times. It must have escaped your mind that this forum is full of people that at one time were involved in the door to door service and that we do have a clue about what was said. Are you telling me that I seem to have forgotten 22 years of my life? Come on now, I think you are a lot smarter than that, I know I am.______
DAVE QUOTE: On a daily basis JW's knock on peoples doors stating their
intention is for people to just simply study "their own "bible.YADIRF QUOTE Response: I've never once known that to be the case. I've never been out in the service going door to door without having a Bible study aid of one sort or another to offer the householder. If the person was favorable to a Bible study, the particular study aid was acknowledged up front. There was no deception attached to it whatsoever.
Dave Response: I guess your congregation had their own way of doing
things then. If they would have gone by the many demonstrations directed by the society in their "service meetings" they would have used the same deceptive techniques that were taught to all JW's. Since I have not physically been to your particular kingdom hall I guess I can't say you are wrong. My logic and experience would tend to make me think you are either not being honest with yourself or are indeed under a delusion and in self denial. There is another option I could consider in that your congregation did in fact do things different then the hundreds of other JW congregations, but according to their claims of the same exact thing being taught throughout the world in their religion I guess that blows that option out of the water.I didn't mention the fact that "bible study aids" were or were not kept
in your brief case. I too had such "aids". You are manipulating and side stepping the direct issue. You are responding in the same manner I stated is used in the field service.
That is, using a programed response to side step that would knowingly have a negative reaction with the purpose to entice by creative deception. The same goes for this site and the way it is set up with a "stated reason" as opposed to the "actual reason". The stated reason is true but, the actual reason is intended.The stated reason given when asked why they are at the persons door is to "encourage people to read their bibles", the actual reason is to "add more members into the religion". The exact words "we are here to get you to join our religion" are not used but that is in fact, the true reason. It's word manipulation I am talking about in my post to you. In the advertising world that technique is called "the hook". You hook them and then you sell them.
The whole reason for me making this post is to agree with you that it is the technique Simon is using. It is also the technique the JW's use. So if they can do it so can he. It's a very simple statement and a very
simple concept._____
DAVE QUOTE: I had such a presentation given to me a few weeks ago and
listened to the same programed response I once use many years ago. In
reality the purpose is to get people to have a bible study using
creatively worded study aids so that the house holder will at some time
become a JW. If you deny that than you are simply not being honest with yourself.YADIRF QUOTE Response: Well of course the object is to help the householder to become a JW … we're obviously not there to teach them the art of sitting in a pew at the local Baptist Church, doing essentially nothing.
Dave Response: You obviously have been to a Baptist church meeting to be able to make that statement. I guess it's all in your definition of the word "nothing". I think they try and teach and instruct their members in their version of what they consider to be the truth about god. It is no different than the JW's. If you define their actions as "noting" you must equate what the JW's do as the same. In that context I must agree with you in relation to my feelings about the whole god thing. But if that is what gets the up in the morning and puts a smile on their face then I say more power too them.
_____
DAVE QUOTE: The JW's realize that if they stated up front that they
believed that the house holder was going to die along with their
children unless they become a JW they would get anywhere at all. The
very first introduction to the religion for most people is based on
deceptive word manipulation.YADIRF QUOTE Response: That's not the least bit true. Jehovah’s Witnesses have never been selective with regards to which Watchtower or Awake magazine that they place with the public. Many, many publications that have contained the very thing you bring up has gone into the publics hands. There’s nothing secretive about those issues at all.
Dave Response: You are missing or ignoring the point I am making. I will make that point again and put in caps so you don't miss it. WHEN ASKED BY A HOUSE HOLDER WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THEIR VISIT IS THE ANSWER IS "TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ AND STUDY 'THEIR BIBLES'". That statement as you have agreed is misleading and not the true reason for the visit. You deny that statement is made. I say that it is. To continue an argument on this is useless with you. You forget I was a JW and I not only was instructed to say make that statement but have also heard may other JW's make the same exact statement. Further arguments on "you said, I said" is pointless. You believe what you want and I will hold to the reality of my own experience in the matter.
_______
DAVE QUOTE: Simon is just using the same technique of specific word and
thought manipulation to entice an interest and then later explain the
real intention, that's it.YADIRF QUOTE Response: As I've demonstrated, that's not true.
Dave Response: Demonstrated? I have seen no demonstration or a cut and
paste quote to back up your statement. What I have seen is your denial
of my statement. Just because you say it isn't true doesn't sway my
thinking based on my own experience as a JW in the slightest. The
difference as I see it is I make statements based on my own experience.
You make them on yours. For both experiences to be different brings into the question does the religion teach different things to different
congregations as they say they do not, or is one of us not being honest
with ourselves.______
DAVE QUOTE: If you consider it deceptive then maybe you should look at
what you say and what you really mean the next time you begin your
presentation out in service.YADIRF QUOTE Response: Presently, and as a matter of fact for quite some time now, I am not engaging in the “service”. However, if I were so engaged there would be no necessity for any changes in “what I say and what I really mean”.
DAVE Response: I would like to hear your reasons for not going out in
service. I know they may be personal ones and if so please excuse me for asking. I see you as a thinker and possessing a passion for your
thoughts and comments on this board. I would never compare you to "YOU
KNOW" but it seems that both of you have your issues with the watchtower organization. It is my thought and I may be wrong, you seem to be at a point in your thinking that you may have some doubts about the religion. What keeps you holding on to their mind set is the question that all who have left the region ask them selves at one time. That is "If the JW's are wrong, then who or what is right"? That in my opinion is the question that is unanswerable by any religion or organized group of individuals. In my "personal" thinking none of them are all right and none of them are all wrong. They are simply a
vehicle for a large population of humans to use to help them get from
birth to death. To expand on my thought would take many pages and more
time than I have right now to expand on it. If I thought it would help youin any way or that you were the slightest bit interested in my personalthoughts I would think the time to write them down. I don't see that as
the case so I will not waste my time.____
DAVE QUOTE: got me out of the JW religion
YADIRF QUOTE Response: Other than justifying deception, into what?
DAVE Response: Into a life that makes me and my son's happy. To explain
to you what I have learned and what makes me tick would take hours. I am
not here to convert anyone into my way of thinking but mainly to meet
and maybe gain a few friends with others that have
experienced similar life situations as I. Being an exJW use to be a very
lonely place to be in life, until the internet came along. I have made
several friend through this medium and I enjoy their thoughts and
opinions. I even enjoy reading yours. I have a lot easier time
understanding where the members of this board have come from because I
came from the same place. It makes making friends for a fairly shy
person like myself a little easier. I am not interested in changing your
mind but only conversing with you on a subject that I have experience
with. I may not agree with your thoughts and beliefs but I do admire
your conviction in them. I still have family in the religion and even
though I rarely see them I still have a relative love for them. I do not hate the JW's I just do not like their approach to life and the manipulation by their leaders. Their leaders have interpreted a religious book that keeps my family in fear
of associating with me. I think that is extremely wrong, but I respect
my families thoughts and beliefs in regard to the religion. They of
course do not respect mine, they are taught not to. That's a shame.YADIRF QUOTE: who still says that Simon is deserving of 30 lashes.
DAVE Response: 30? hell, give the boy 60, he would probably love it!
Dave