check out this news story: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/12/21/foreign/fw030707-1221-xa036-terror.htm.
many question jehovah on what will happen with the children during armageddon.
i don't know that answer entirely so i'll wait and see what happens.
Erich,
You are one interesting person. Please excuse me for making assumptions based on past postings of YHVH. I am interested in what you have to say. I will pick up the book and get in touch with you.
I think Alan F. would enjoy this subject matter also. I will email him and have he check this tread out.
Thanks again, I think this could be fun.
Dave
check out this news story: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/12/21/foreign/fw030707-1221-xa036-terror.htm.
many question jehovah on what will happen with the children during armageddon.
i don't know that answer entirely so i'll wait and see what happens.
Erich,
Gödel, Escher, Bach. I'm impressed,...to a point. I have had Hofstadter's book recommended to me by a friend once before. Now that I see your comment in relation to your YHVH philosophy I am definitely going to pick it up. Thank you for mentioning it.
I have an idea where your belief is based. If it is coming from the writings of The Torah then I am in disagreement based on many thoughts like the theory of Adam the astronaut as well as most others. From what I know of Hofstadter his thoughts on AI are intriguing and I am sorry I haven't read the book before now.
I have always found Escher to be one of the most unique and misunderstood artist of all time. I even did an airbrush illustration of two robotic arms drawing themselves in the same vein as Escher's "strange loops" for the cover of Art Material Trade News back in the mid 90's. It was my way of expanding on Escher's thoughts in relation to the future thoughts of AI.
You have definitely aroused my interest. I still think your inference to the mathematical formula to prove that YHVH is universally accepted as truth based on mathamatical theorem in regard to a universal language is wrong. But I can now see where you are coming from. Hofstadter's theories are not universally accepted but in many ways highly respected. I believe in his own words in regard to his theory in relation to his belief that he states the sometimes you have to rely on "faith". There is that word that makes me stop and wonder. It is the same wall of proof that Kierkegaard ran into in trying to back up to his philosophy about christianity.
If I am correct in my assumption of your Torah based belief and you would like to continue this discussion then let me know if this is indeed your belief. If not then thank you again for bringing up the book and I will definitely check it out.
Again I think you for the mature way in which you have presented your thoughts.
Take care,
Dave
check out this news story: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/12/21/foreign/fw030707-1221-xa036-terror.htm.
many question jehovah on what will happen with the children during armageddon.
i don't know that answer entirely so i'll wait and see what happens.
Eruch,
All of us on this board have or own ideas and thoughts. Your being adamant about the sanctity of a name is apparent and I respect your freedom to have it. What you consider to be an error in my thinking I see as an error in yours. The only difference is, my thinking is just that, my thinking. It is open to new ideas and open to new concepts. Yours is the accumulation of many others who feel it is the only correct and absolute thought.
If it is what gets you up in the morning and puts a smile on your face then your way of thinking is what works for you. To view it as an absolute fact is in my opinion and in your words "an intellectual mistake" and a perfect example of "shortsightedness."
I admire your zeal for your thoughts and the mature way in which you present them.
Take care,
Dave
check out this news story: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/12/21/foreign/fw030707-1221-xa036-terror.htm.
many question jehovah on what will happen with the children during armageddon.
i don't know that answer entirely so i'll wait and see what happens.
Erich,
Your just backing a new team with the same old quarterback. What ever name you want to give him is irrelevant. It is the same old philosophy of religious supremos male dominated and controlling hogwash that is crumbling like those who created it. Your acceptance of a man made concept of an ancient god with a sward of justice is no different from YoYo's. If there is indeed a god of love floating somewhere in the universe I can accept that possibility but the one the bible speaks of is very ungodly. The good concepts of love they neighbor and do un to others are humanity based concepts that had been written way before the writers of the bible ripped them off.
Separating your body from the watchtower society is very admirable and shows you are genuine in your search for answers. Subscribing to the same warn out concepts with your mind nullifies your efforts. Tide laundry detergent packaged in a box that says "new and improved" fools some of the people some of the time but in reality it is the same old soap. But as I have said may times before, what ever rocks your boat!
Dave
check out this news story: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/12/21/foreign/fw030707-1221-xa036-terror.htm.
many question jehovah on what will happen with the children during armageddon.
i don't know that answer entirely so i'll wait and see what happens.
YoYo ,
You cry for so few and turn a blind eye to so many. Read your bible, read about the flood and the attempted genocide of nations that did not buy into the philosophy of Jehovah the god of armies. Read your manipulative "love me or die" stories that are the guiding light of such a philosophy. Is this the philosophy you teach your own children if you have them? Love me or die? Do you demand such arrogant blind acceptance from those whom you claim to love? If not, then does that make you more compassionate than your god or more understanding of human nature? Does the honest feeling of real right and wrong contradict that of which you preach?
Armageddon, that is the biggest con and the biggest pedophile of all human innocents. Give yourself without question to the heavy breath and life raping hands of such a concept. You do not deserve to run your own life but must succumb as victim of godly masculine self gratification, what a crock.
I feel more sorry for you than those who you speak of. You have bought into such a thing that can only be described by it's own invention of the concept of evil. To strip one of their own intelligence so as to own them out of ones own ego and insecurities. It is thinking like yours that has caused such things. What makes you think that the fanaticism of such black magic practices you draw attention to are any different from the practices your beloved religion aspires to.
How many thousands of children have died because of the blood issue established by those leaders of your cult? You know so little and understand even less. It is you I feel sorry for, it is people with like thoughts that makes the world an evil place.
It is that concept of an earth wide evil that you and others like you propagate that makes the world perceived as you speak.
If your god had the simple understanding of a real child to their parents and again returned, you would not even fathom such a concept. As someone quoted Jack Nickelson in another thread, go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.
Dave
as the unfortunate school-age children of jws worldwide, or at least in christendom, face up to two of what must certainly be the most dreaded days of the school year -- today and monday, i don't think it would be remiss to do pay them tribute -- the honor of a brief recognition of some sort, say by the raising of a glass, a prayer, a couple moments' reflection, whatever.. i refer to all those of the trembling knees, quivering lips, moistened eyes and hollow feelings in the pits of their little tummies as they loyally face up to the humiliation of standing aside from the masses of christmas celebrants among their school friends.
how they must agonize over dealing with the incessant questions of their mates about ``what are you going to do this christmas," ``what did santa bring you?
'' -- not to mention listening to the spirited banter of their school friends recounting how much fun they had and what they found under tree christmas morning, etc.
Andi,
As I said before, Neil is one lucky guy. He must be an incredible person to have won the heart of a woman such as you. My hat is off to the man.
What's up with this underbelly stuff? Just cuz I'm old doesn't mean I have an under-tummy! Hold on a sec, let me check....................................as I was saying, Neil is one lucky guy.
Alan F. and I had a great conversation about social retardation when he came to visit. After I called him a social retard I told him that I knew he was one because it takes one to know one. That's why I come here, that's why I love this place. If you think about it, people with Downs Syndrome and others with some brain dysfunction are the most loving and non judgmental people in the world. All us so called normal people call them retarded. Maybe the truth is, they are the only normal people on the earth and we are the ones with the real problem.
Don't cry for that little girl, what she experienced and what she had to endure has built her character and made her the understanding and loving person that she is today. Most people do not have the insight of what it really means to feel emotional pain. Think about it.
Thank you sweetheart, you are one of the people who keep me coming back here.
Big hug,
Dave
as the unfortunate school-age children of jws worldwide, or at least in christendom, face up to two of what must certainly be the most dreaded days of the school year -- today and monday, i don't think it would be remiss to do pay them tribute -- the honor of a brief recognition of some sort, say by the raising of a glass, a prayer, a couple moments' reflection, whatever.. i refer to all those of the trembling knees, quivering lips, moistened eyes and hollow feelings in the pits of their little tummies as they loyally face up to the humiliation of standing aside from the masses of christmas celebrants among their school friends.
how they must agonize over dealing with the incessant questions of their mates about ``what are you going to do this christmas," ``what did santa bring you?
'' -- not to mention listening to the spirited banter of their school friends recounting how much fun they had and what they found under tree christmas morning, etc.
Room,
After coming to this site for about a year I have to say this is one of the best post I have ever read. Your insight and concern for those who share the embarrassment and confusion of being a JW kid is very touching. I remember those days, the flag salute, the leaving early for holiday parties at school and all the other things that taught us to be socially retarded.
Thanks, you just made my day.
Dave
it doesn't take much to get this old sod very happy.
i just received the bestest christmas pressy ever, my lil boys email address, wey heyyyyy, now i can write to him directly, celtic is one happy man now.. when you only see your only child every 5 months or so for a few days, this means the world to me.. just wanted to share.. peace.
celtic.
Mark,
I am happy for you my friend. Your children can make your life worth living. I don't know what I would do without mine. I hope when your son gets older he might think about coming down to live with his dad. Iv had that happen and it has changed my life.
I'm happy for you ya crazy old fart. Iv watched you grow and mature over a couple of exJW boards and I am damn proud of you. I think you are figuring out what its all about.
Your friend,
Dave
i have not been to this sight in months.
i come back and its a complete mess.
this jw-whoever guy, has a right to speak his mind.
jterfehr,
Your concerns are understood but I think you are missing some very important points. If you look at the general makeup of this board you will see exactly what it is. To have someone ignore the obvious and pop on with no significant discussion objective but only a drive by shooting approach to conversation is purely childish. What JWman did was no different from a white supremos skin head popping into a discussion board for the NAACP and saying things just to stir up trouble. It was not the content of his message that got him booted but his childish and self serving way in which he did it.
Freedom of speech is one thing, freedom of harassment is another. This board is not a democracy, it is privately owned. I think the owner is one of the fairest people I have met in any of the discussion boards I have visited and he handles things like this much better than I would. I am a moderator on another exJW board and I would have deactivated JWmans account and blocked his ISP the first day. I have seen where Simon has blocked other peoples accounts before and has offered the offender to email him privately to discuss the matter. You can't get any more fair than that.
The elder comment was unfair and if you have problems with the elder arrangement and disfellowshipped practices I suggest you take that up with your local congregation. If you want to associate deactivating someones account with disfellowshipping that is a simple thing to do and dosen't take much real thought. If you want to expand your mind beyond the controlling practices of the JW religion and try to understand the actions taken for what they are, you just might gain some insight and understanding about real life. There is a big difference between what Simon did and what the JW's do. If you can't see that then you have a long way to go in your journey of understanding.
Dave
i was having a discussion last nice about these things.. i went out about a half hour after my dissing waas announced and got a tattoo.. who else has gotten tattos, or body piercings, or any type of body modificatoins done since leaving?.
kisses!.
sky
Stacey,
Ya mean other guys have said "trust me" to you before, and didn't mean it? Those bastards!
Let me put your mind at rest. I use to live in Fremont when I was just a young little trustworthy publisher. I helped build the kingdom hall that sits in the middle of an Indian burial ground. I use to buy my new shoes at the Fremont Hub and I went to Mission Valley Grade School off of Olive Avenue when I was but a tike. Yes, I was a Mission Valley Beaver. I also traveled the USA extensively a few years back for business and went to the Bay Area several times a year.
I laughed at the people who lived in Newark and I rode the 30 minute ride up the Nimitz (I forgot how to spell Nimits) with my mommy to go visit my grandma in Oakland. I was actually born in Oakland, I remember it well. Oakland, not being born.
OK, that hopefully takes away trust factor #1
Now for trust factor #2, the art stuff:
http://www.sumagroup.com
http://www.sumagroup.com/ttd
http://www.sumagroup.com/dave
http://www.sumagroup.com/3d
I built all of those sites, the majority of the work in them if not all of it, I have done.
As for my age, the last birthday party I had, I was three years old. After that my mom became a JW and I have lost track ever since. I think I'm between thirty and more than thirty.
Now do you trust me? Women!
Your newest and bestist buddy,
Dave
