Posts by seven006

17

To YoYo, what is "good"

by seven006 in

jw
friends

yoyo said:.

<<<i'm sorry i seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that i too get pissed when opposers of jehovah's witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.>>>.

the concept of "good" as seen through the eyes of a jw elder has been discussed numerous times on this board.. i'm sure the "good" as you see it only comes from your personal perspective.

seven006

Thanks for your comments guys, as I said, I do this because I like YoYo. I think he truly has a good heart.It's his head that seems to have the problem.

Outlaw, I'll check out the site, thanks.

Dave

17

To YoYo, what is "good"

by seven006 in

jw
friends

yoyo said:.

<<<i'm sorry i seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that i too get pissed when opposers of jehovah's witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.>>>.

the concept of "good" as seen through the eyes of a jw elder has been discussed numerous times on this board.. i'm sure the "good" as you see it only comes from your personal perspective.

seven006

<<<Dave: They disfellowshipped you, that was good.>>>

YoYo my friend,
you know noting of my story or how I chose to leave the religion. The elders who were my friends called and pleaded with me for nine mounts to come back. It broke their hearts when I refused to come back. They were good friends of mine and there wasn't a single one of them that felt "good" about any of it.

They were fellow humans as well as friends and I did not feel good upsetting them the way it did.

Again you seem to not understand the concept of compassion and love.

You are better than this YoYo, I know you are. Try showing your human side and not just your JW side. I miss my old friends and I know they miss me.

Take care,

Dave

26

Patriotism isn't only by the flag?

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

patriotism isn't only by the flag?.

by robyn blumner.

(c) st. petersburg times, published november 11, 2001. the american flag has truly come into its own in recent weeks, replacing suction-cupped garfield's as the accouterment of choice for our cars.. everywhere you look, the flag is hanging out of car windows-unless there is a football game and the local team flag takes precedence.

seven006

YoYo.

Once again I admonish you to think before you post. This one is so easy to see through and reflect back to the
blind eye of JW thinking I am almost embarrassed to respond to it.

<<<I don't wave the flag, I wave principles. More than a swath of fabric, our country is represented by a set of ideas that have been culled from the best of the Enlightenment.>>>

Look in your book bag. See that little collated bunch of papers with the word Watchtower on the front of it? That is your flag. You speak of people displaying their "flags" in their cars as a symbol their belief in their country. I remember so well having my parents tell us to tape up a watchtower to our back window as we drove for hours to our yearly district convention. I thought it odd that we didn't do that all the time.

You have principals? Ya YoYo, we know you do, so does the KKK.

<<< But at this time of renewed patriotic fervor, we have to be careful that flag waving doesn't become flag raving.>>>

Again, I thought it odd that my family and other JW families only put watchtowers in their car windows when the exhilaration of the up coming district convention was coming. Why don't they do it all the time?

<<<In the early and mid-1940s, as World War II raged, a wave of anti-Witness violence swept the country. >>>

I'm sure the tens of thousands of Japanese Americans who were put into camps all over the United States would win the "who was treated worse" award during that time in American history. Not to mention the two million or so Jews who were murdered is Gremany. Ever been to a Native American reservation YoYo? I have. Now what were you telling me about the persecution of a few poor JW's exercising their principals during world war II?

<<<Witnesses also inflamed communities with their avid proselytizing and open criticism of other organized religions.>>>

Now this one is just too good. People got mad because the JW's were criticizing their religion? I know that would piss me off if someone did that to me. How about you YoYo? Here is a little quote by YOU from another thread:

<<<I'm sorry I seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that I too get pissed when Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.>>>

Now tell us about how people should just sit back and listen to their "beliefs" be criticized. It pisses you off? How odd.

This is so sad, people doing mean things to others just because they do not see eye to eye:

<<< For example, in Litchfield, Ill., carloads of Witnesses were set upon by townspeople, with members of the American Legion leading the way. Men and women were pulled from their cars, the men beaten. >>>

I guess you haven't heard the story about Simon and his wife. Simon is the guy who started this site. Simon was a JW when he first put this site up. It was for JW's to come and talk. You should ask him what the loving brothers did to him and his family because he refused to take the site down. Simon is now an exJW. Go ahead YoYo, ask him what your loving brothers did.

<<<In a ringing opinion, the court said Jehovah's Witness children and others have the First Amendment right to refuse to participate in a flag salute.>>>

Isn't it funny how JW's condemn this government as a servant of Satan the boogie man when it suits their purpose?
Isn't it funny how the JW's speak highly of this government when it over looks that fact and gives them the freedom that they feel is owed to them? The word hypocrite come to mind here YoYo, what do you think?

<<<"Freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much," wrote Justice Robert Jackson. "That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.">>>

Wow, now that's great. "The test of substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart." It's amazing how you point that quote out YoYo. "the right to differ." Now that is a concept that I see you love when it serves your purpose. How far does that concept go in the loving concept of having a different opinion than the JW's do in relation to association with their so called disfellowshipped family members? That is certainly something that touches the heart, don't you think? I guess the is only a one way concept for JW"s isn't it.

<<<The flag should be a symbol of America, land of liberty, pluralism and
tolerance. But too often it has been hijacked by commercial interests to hawk goods, by politicians to hide behind and by bullies to justify violence against those who are different. >>>

Wow, commercial interest, yep, that's bad. I'm glad the watchtower society gives all their publications out for free to all it's members. Let's see, books, by weekly magazines, six million people. Yep, they aren't making a dime! I wonder how they built up almost a billion dollars in cash that is sitting in their bank account? That must be hard to save up when you give away free stuff.

<<<To avoid any confusion, I'm sticking to principles.>>>

We know you are YoYo, so did the guys who flew the jets into the twin towers. Lets hear it for principals!!!!!!

Take care YoYo.

Dave

17

To YoYo, what is "good"

by seven006 in

jw
friends

yoyo said:.

<<<i'm sorry i seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that i too get pissed when opposers of jehovah's witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.>>>.

the concept of "good" as seen through the eyes of a jw elder has been discussed numerous times on this board.. i'm sure the "good" as you see it only comes from your personal perspective.

seven006

YoYo said:
<<<I'm sorry I seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that I too get pissed when Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.>>>

The concept of "good" as seen through the eyes of a JW elder has been discussed numerous times on this board.
I'm sure the "good" as you see it only comes from your personal perspective. Many of us have seen the "good" the elders have done through our own eyes.

Your loving example of "good" is the showing of human traits not exclusive to the JW elder population that you are trying to present. Helping those in need, providing a hug or encouraging word to those suffering, or even something as simple as a smile of encouragement or a pat on the back. Those are human traits expressed and given out by anyone who understands the concept of human compassion for his fellow human. It is not exclusive to the JW's and their body of elders. I'm sure in common everyday situations the "human" part of you and your fellow elders comes into play just as it does with any non or exJW person.

You and your fellow believers distort these basic human traits of love and compassion and try to convince each other that these concepts of being human are an exclusive to your own and should be exercised only within your own ranks.
You look at all human kind outside of your religion as evil demon worshiping examples of the walking dead. You speak of the "good" elders do but you fail to explain to Danni that your concept of good has its limits and its borders.

Telling your children that god is going to kill all their class mates is not "good."
Telling your children that god hates everyone who is not a JW is not "good."
Telling your children that if they do not believe what you tell them they will die is not "good."
Telling your children that god will kill babies and old people who do not believe as you do is not "good."
Telling your children that anyone who is not a JW is evil and worships a mythical devil is not "good."
Telling your new bible studies that their children will die at Armageddon if they do not join your religion is not "good."

Telling a person that their own flesh and blood does not deserve to receive any love or association with them because they do not agree with your teaching is not "good." Convincing someone that by not associating with their child or parent because "you" see it as a disciplinary action thus showing love is a twisted and distractive interpretation of love and it is not "good." Prying into peoples lives and trying to control everything from how they think and what they do in the privacy of their own homes is not "good." Encouraging young people to get married at an age where they know noting of how to be a proper husband or wife simply because you see it as a better alternative to premarital sex is not "good." Telling someone to let a loved one die instead of accepting proper medical treatment to save their life based on your leaders interpretation of an ancient book is not "good." Turning your backs on the entire earthly population and the suffering of others outside of your religion is not "good."

I can go on and on.

Now, Yo Yo, tell about the good you elders do.

What you perceive as "good" is a narrow minded and self serving interpretation of what a few old men in New York feel is good in their eyes. Adolph Hitler had a similar concept he saw as "good." He too took care of his own people and loved them and told them how to think and feel. He too saw one single sect of people as having the right to control and eventually inherit the earth. He too told his young people to turn in their mothers and fathers for not agreeing with his concept of "good." The end justifies the means once again.

You say it pisses you off when opposers of JW's throw accusations left and right and never see the good you do. In your narrow minded concept of life on this planet I have not seen one group of people who "throw accusations" as much as your religion. The only difference is we accuse you for what we "know you do" based on our personal and real life experiences with your religion. You throw accusations out regarding the whole entire earths population outside of your religion. You accuse all others of evil and hurtful actions without exception and without having a clue about anything else except what your leaders tell you we do and think. You pass judgment on all human kind to justify your leaders warped concept of humanity and you condemn life on this planet to fit your own belief.

Just as Hitler and his henchmen reveled in the thought of the destruction of all Jews and the non white race of people you and your religious followers revel in the thought of the destruction of ALL human kind and the thought of inheriting the earth with only "your" kind. Your religion writes numerous books and publishes weekly magazines whipping all it's believes into a frenzy of exhilaration in the thought of all of us dyeing. Your buddy You Know salivates at the thought of birds eating our eyeballs out as they pick apart our dead carcasses.

Your religion sees it's own interpretation of "good" as the complete annihilation of all human kind except for your immediate religious followers. This includes little old ladies who have loved god their entire life right down to a new born baby who has no concept of what god is or what religion is supposed to do in the concept of doing "good" on this planet.

Just because you hug a few people in your congregation does not mean what you perceive to be "good" has even a remote relationship to what the rest of the world sees as "good."

Try it again YoYo, I will be waiting. I only do this because I like you.

Take care,

Dave

60

My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses

by Danni in

jw
friends

i know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .

yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.

at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.

seven006

YoYo,

Now you are getting the idea. What you see as wrong, your religion tries to cover up. ExJw's are not a religion so we cannot throw those who practice such things out. The JW's are a religion and it is an absolute fact that they not only hide the molesters but they leave them in positions of responsibility.

Believe what you want. From what I have seen of you, you will do exactly that.

Take care YoYo. I still think you are a good man.

Dave

101

Who of you in this forum have been df'ed?

by YoYoMama in

if it is possible can you post why you were disfellowshipped?

seven006

Outlaw,

I'm going to be serious right now and I hate doing that. But if you really want to know why I am the way I am I will tell you.

I have been through so much crap in my life I had to sit down and take a good look at myself to see if I was bringing a lot of it on myself. In doing that I try to see myself as others might. It is all in ones perspective. If I only looked at things through my eyes I would limit my ability to understand both sides of any issue I am presented with. If I continued to only try and see things from my perspective I would become stagnate and never grow or learn as a person.

Several years ago I heard a speaker who was addressing a MENSA conference. That is a little club of people with big brains and bigger egos. The speaker was a lady (I don't recall her name) who was considered at the time to have the highest IQ in the world. She was asked what she contributed her extreamly high intelligence to and she answered it in very simple way. She said " I keep an open mind on everything". That thought has always stuck with me.

I constantly try to put myself in others shoes and gain an insight about where they are coming from. I do not look at a line as only being straight but also curved and wiggly. When someone says draw a line 99% of the people will draw a straight line. Thats what we are programed to do and the way we are programed to think. I try and adjust my perspective to have a glimpse of where others may be coming from so I can more accurately compare it to my own perspective. I do not have an ego so big that I will not allow myself to make a mistake and then try to deny the mistake. A line is not always straight and things are not always as we think we seem them. That includes how we see ourselves.

Everyone makes mistakes but only those who can realize that, accept it and learn from it can continue to grow. Once you have closed your mind to alternative thinking than your own, you will stop growing and learning. I do not fully accept all ways of thinking and make them my own but rather I try to understand why that alternative thinking exist. Once you understand where someone is coming from you can better have an interactive dialog with them. You do not have to accept their way of thinking but you can understand why they think that way and respect them for it.

Every concept and particular way of thinking has a reason behind it. Whether it is from a dug addict, hooker, cop, priest, monk, truck driver, school teacher, politician or little child. They all have their perspective on life. If you can take just a little time trying to understand their perspective as opposed to just their expressed way of thinking you can deal with any given situation. I don't like rednecks, bigots, evangelist, cheaters, liars, drunks etc. But, if I know why they have those thoughts and feelings on their life I might be able to help them gain a little different perspective or at lest understand why they are the way they are. It's all in how much someone wants to learn and do whats right in their life in relation to how it effects other people.

I do not let any religious, political, racial, national, or ethnic philosophy influence my particular perspective. To let that happen I would have to allow someone else's perspective to become mine.
As long as I can keep an open mind and use it with complete and total freedom of thought I can make some pretty decent decisions in my life. I still have a lot to learn. I will still make mistakes. As long as I realize that and accept that I will continue to grow and understand others.

It is hard for a person to do battle with you if you tell them you understand where they are coming from. It is hard for a person to tell you off if you tell your self off first. Add a little humor and human compassion and you no longer have a foe. The disagreement or issue in conflict is better understood if you can admit the possibility of being wrong whether you fell you are or not. It's looking at the big picture and taking the other person out of the defensive mode. Do you gain more respect by telling someone to fuck off or by saying you are sorry if you upset them. People who are upset with you expect you to react to them in like manner. When you don't, it throws them off. Who cares who wins what or who can call the other person the more offensive name? Sometimes it just feels good to chew someone out, but what does it really accomplish? Nothing. Sitting back and saying "I could be wrong so lets talk about it" does much more.

It's respect, perspective, big picture and keeping an open mind. If that all fails, then I smoke crack.

I hope this give you a little idea of who I am and how I think.

Next week we will discuss the male ego and how to use sympathy, onion juice in your eyes and a cute little puppy to get laid.

Take care,

Dave

60

My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses

by Danni in

jw
friends

i know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .

yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.

at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.

seven006

YoYo,

You are so wrong my friend. My last girlfriend who is an exJW was repeatedly raped and molested by her father when she was 14. He also molested her two brothers. He is still a ministerial servant in Eugene Oregon and she is psychologically damaged for life. Alan F can verify this because he knw her also.

Another Elder I grew up with had sex with his 13 year old step daughter repeatedly. He was turned in by her real non-JW father and was sent to jail for a short time. He is back as a ministerial servant in the congregation In Washington State and still as full of shit as he was before.

We have been playing real nice together YoYo, Please don't piss me off with blanket statements you know nothing about. Whats it going to take for you to wake up and quit lieing to yourself?

Dave

101