Leaders of a Jehovah's Witnesses congregation must reveal what a Murrieta man suspected of molesting two girls told them, despite their claims the conversation were protected by clergy confidentiality, a judge ruled Tuesday.
The congregation leaders must testify in the man's trial on child-molestation charges, said Riverside County Judge F. Paul Dickerson.
The defense attorney says he will appeal.
Experts say the ruling raises compelling legal questions.
"It is an interesting legal issue that does need to be clarified by the court," said Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.
She said an appeals court could decide if the law should extend beyond a traditional confession into this type of hearing.
California law protects statements made to clergy members who are required by their faith's practices to keep them secret.
In his ruling, Dickerson said testimony from Elder Andrew Sinay showed the Jehovah's Witnesses' judicial committee system is not designed to keep information confidential.
Dickerson said this was not a case where Gilbert Simental went to the elders seeking forgiveness or guidance.
"This was the opposite," he said. "It was more like a third-party investigation into immoral conduct."
In this case, the judge said, the elders' duty was to determine guilt and to protect the congregation, not to keep the communications under wraps.
"It's an investigative, fact-finding body without regard for confidentiality," he said. "This was a tribunal designed to protect the congregation."
Dickerson's ruling came in response to prosecutor Burke Strunsky's request to force the elders to testify. Jury selection is already under way in Simental's trial at the Southwest Justice Center in French Valley.
"This case highlights the perils of interpreting this privilege in an overly broad fashion," Strunsky said.
Simental, 49, is charged with molesting two of his daughter's friends when they came to his home for sleepovers between July 2005 and July 2006, according to court papers. The girls are sisters who were 9 and 10 at the time, the records show.
The Press-Enterprise does not publish the names of minors who are believed to have been victims of sexual abuse.
After the ruling, defense attorney Miles Clark said he will appeal Dickerson's decision.
"My client relied on the elders to keep his statements confidential," Clark said.
Jehovah's Witnesses should not be treated differently from members of other faiths simply because their practices are different, he said.
Clark said Simental's statements to the judicial committee should be treated the way the statements a Roman Catholic makes to a priest in a confessional are.
During the hearing at the Southwest Justice Center, prosecutor Strunsky questioned Sinay about the congregation's practices and how information obtained during a judicial committee is handled.
Sinay said they share information obtained during judicial committee proceedings with the Jehovah's Witnesses office in New York and with committees that are called on in an appellate capacity.
Strunsky also questioned the parents of the two girls.
The girls' parents testified that after the children came to their mother with their allegations, she met with Sinay and Elder John Vaughn, who agreed they would inform the couple of the outcome of the inquiry.
The girls' mother testified that Sinay later told her that Simental had made a full confession.
While Sinay did not provide her with a verbatim confession, she said Sinay did tell her that Simental had confessed.
Clark asked whether Sinay ever said that Simental had confessed to molesting her daughters.
The woman said he did not use the word "molest" during their conversation.
The girls' father testified that during a meeting with Sinay, Vaughn and another elder, he was also told that Simental confessed during a judicial committee meeting.
The elders also told the father that Simental had never done this before and was no danger to the community, he said.
If convicted of all charges, Simental faces 45 years to life in prison.
Simental is charged with a similar allegation in another criminal case. That case is currently awaiting trial.
He is free on $1 million bail.
Staff writer Jessica Logan contributed to this report.
Reach Tammy McCoy at 951-375-3729 or tmccoy@PE.com
Posts by sf
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16Elders Must Testify; Attorneys to Appeal
by Kenneson insorry if this has been posted before, but i just came across it.. "jehovah's witnesses elders must tesfify in murrieta molestation case, judge rules".
http://www.pe.com/localnews/rivcounty/stories/pe_news_local_h_faith26.4193557.html.
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sf
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14
Some of My Thoughts on Knocking's Legal Threats
by DT inyou may want to check out this thread for background information.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/155256/1.ashx.
so i get an email from one of the knocking directors threatening legal action over an alleged copyright infringement in the watchtower comments videos.
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"KNOCKING" LEGAL ACTION AGAINST WATCHTOWER COMMENTS
by V inthis notice was emailed to a third party who embeds watchtower comments videos on his blog:.
"my name is tom shepard, co-producer and co-director of knocking, a documentary about jehovah's witnesses.
you have violated u.s. copyright law by not gaining permission to use footage from knocking in the opening sequence of your series of short videos "watchtower comments" archived at the url: http://jehovahswitnessesvideo.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html .
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14
Some of My Thoughts on Knocking's Legal Threats
by DT inyou may want to check out this thread for background information.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/155256/1.ashx.
so i get an email from one of the knocking directors threatening legal action over an alleged copyright infringement in the watchtower comments videos.
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sf
I'd like to insert the knocking STUDY GUIDE in this thread as well:
http://www.itvs.org/outreach/knocking/knocking_studyguide.pdf
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74
"KNOCKING" LEGAL ACTION AGAINST WATCHTOWER COMMENTS
by V inthis notice was emailed to a third party who embeds watchtower comments videos on his blog:.
"my name is tom shepard, co-producer and co-director of knocking, a documentary about jehovah's witnesses.
you have violated u.s. copyright law by not gaining permission to use footage from knocking in the opening sequence of your series of short videos "watchtower comments" archived at the url: http://jehovahswitnessesvideo.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html .
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sf
I'd like to insert the STUDY GUIDE into this thread as well, if you don't mind:
http://www.itvs.org/outreach/knocking/knocking_studyguide.pdf
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74
"KNOCKING" LEGAL ACTION AGAINST WATCHTOWER COMMENTS
by V inthis notice was emailed to a third party who embeds watchtower comments videos on his blog:.
"my name is tom shepard, co-producer and co-director of knocking, a documentary about jehovah's witnesses.
you have violated u.s. copyright law by not gaining permission to use footage from knocking in the opening sequence of your series of short videos "watchtower comments" archived at the url: http://jehovahswitnessesvideo.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html .
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sf
Anyone seen the KNOCKING STUDY GUIDE, yet?:
http://www.itvs.org/outreach/knocking/knocking_studyguide.pdf
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15
The United Nations, the Scarlet Colored Beast and the Watchtower
by jgnat inthis week, the watchtower society set about vilifying the united nations as the scarlet colored beast.
i learned from the revelation book, chapter 34, that it was knorr who started the trend with his public talk in 1942. the revelation book suggests that the league of nations and then the united nations that followed, are direct fulfillments of the prophecy in revelation 17:8. here's an excerpt from the book:.
"the un is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of god's messianic kingdom by his prince of peace, jeus christ - to whose princely rule there will be no end.
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sf
If only this information was known by those sitting in the KHalls today.
It CAN be Known. If only those who sit there, knowing it, would grab their pride and spit it out.
We can only keep waiting for that day though.
It is up to them to get this info out. Not US!
DJK, the documents are not a fraud. I received a letter from the U.N. back when there was the letter campaign to straighten this all out. I'm positive it came directly from the U.N. That is where I sent my letter.
I'm not sure who else would have received my letter mailed directly to the U.N.
The only fraud going on here is the WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION itself.
sKally
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15
Just Saw this on the Silentlambs Website
by jamiebowers inhttp://www.kvbc.com/global/story.asp?s=8013339&nav=15mv.
what a shame!.
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15
Just Saw this on the Silentlambs Website
by jamiebowers inhttp://www.kvbc.com/global/story.asp?s=8013339&nav=15mv.
what a shame!.
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383
Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(
by reniaa ini've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!
i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.
they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".
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sf
Sinis,
I am printing THIS out and glueing it to my teenage {16} daughters mirror:
First off, the lot we make in life is a reflection of not only who we are but who we hang out with. I do stand by the premise that the things you have described are atrributed to who you hang out with, thus, boiled down the problem becomes yours and yours only. Granted, the nicest person, who may have been a friend for years, can turn on someone. Yet you list several relationship issues that raise red flags. In my opinion it is who you hang out with, or makes friends with, which ultimately reflects upon YOU. YOU control the situation.
Much oblige,
sKally