Posts by AlainAlam

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

Magnum, thanks for the two-scenario illustration. I understand what you're saying. I think that to start with, they didn't even have the bad intention of "stealing", to use your illustration. But I'm seeing that at some point they chose to hide/lie instead of being frank/honest/transparent/genuine. This is where evil stepped in.

607 is a subject I never gave much attention when I was a witness. I was like "who cares". But you guys mentioned it often, in connection with Carl Olof Jonsonn as well as Franz, so I will check this out. Right after I'm done with the ARC issue and some other things I have in mind and will write about soon.

If you don't mind, could you please let me know when you start a thread on the disaster relief moneymaking scam? I don't check everything written on this website (there's so much!) so I'm afraid I might miss it :)

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

Vidiot, thanks for your input. Yes, I'm learning to see that.

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

days of future passed: Thanks for taking the time :) I appreciate it. I went through all the verses and references. If I understand correctly, Rev 11 speaks of the beast coming out of the abyss [JW: political system] + the image of the beast [JW: LoN/UN], while Rev 17 speaks of a beast [JW: UN] that looks like the first one but is purple. Their interpretation since 1942 allows for the beast of Rev 11 to be the political system that persecuted them in the 1910s rather than the UN that wasn't there until 1945.

Of course the whole of Relevation is just *faceslap* but I don't think they're misleading on purpose to avoid ending up with an understanding where the UN persecuted them in the 1910s.

About hiding sexual abuse, I'm checking the evidence. Currently listening to the ARC recording. Thanks for mentioning the topic. But what's the "20/20 television show"?

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

"When a common JW apostate like us can see through all the lies, deceptions, cover ups of the WT, do you think the people who run this show are not aware of these ?"

EverApostate, I don't think it's that simple. Allow me to illustrate: I come from a Muslim family. I started reading the Quran at age 12 or so. It was immediately clear to me that the whole thing was bullshit. I could see through it. I'm sure many Muslim scholars see through it as well, but perpetuate the lie for different reasons. But I'm also sure many Muslim scholars, even among the most educate ones, still believe it. Cognitive dissonance can be very effective. Particularly when we learn to "focus on the positive". When I was a JW, every time I saw crap in the Bible and/or publications I would focus on all the reasons I had to believe in the Bible/the organization. I hate religion :)

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

TD thanks for the link on eating blood, I read it all :)

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

Incognito, thank you for taking the time to write this. You're right each could have his own criteria of what defines bad intent. I just wanted to say that I'm not asking for your thoughts just so I could dismiss them :)

You're also right when you say not everything is black and white. Just because their intentions are not pitch black doesn't automatically mean they are pure. That's something others have helped me understand.

"When honest mistakes are made, honest people will admit to those mistakes and will usually take steps to correct matters to prevent the same mistakes from being made going forward. What mistakes have the GB admitted to?"

That's a very good benchmark. I'm actually looking deeper into it.

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

DesirousOfChange Thank you for your input. That's a possibility.

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

AlainAlam

Ding:

"What about the overlapping generations nonsense? Do you think the GB themselves believe this is really what Jesus was talking about?"

That IS nonsense indeed. Never bought it. Never even understood.

I think in 30 or 50 years or so, when the end doesn't come and they have to change it again, they will claim that "this generation" refers to the generation living during the great tribulation rather than that living in the last days.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

AlainAlam

"This phenomenon, (JW's being sloppy with their own teachings for the sake of convenience) is not isolated. It's fairly easy to come up with examples."

I agree. I think the Bible is so full of contradictions and so ambiguous that every religion who claims to cling to it has to do "something" to escape it. Catholics will tend to ignore it altogether. Some Protestants will claim literal parts are not literal. JW will find mind-twisting interpretations. And all, to different extents, will ignore parts of it and focus on others.

30

A chance for the unrighteous?

by AlainAlam in

the witnesses teach that the "unrighteous" are brought back to life in order to learn about god during the 1000-year reign.

i don't think that's a bible teaching, for the following reason:.

1) no verse says that.

AlainAlam

Vanderhoven7, you're asking "Who are the anointed going to rule over with a rod of iron during the 1000 year reign". I do believe the "two class" thing is biblical (Gen 12 and 22 with the seed by means of which families/nations are blessed, Exodus with the Israelites being a nation of kings and priests, Isaiah with Israel being a light unto the nations and ruling over them, and so on, down to Revelation). But nothing in the Bible indicates that among the nations who will be ruled over during the 1000y reign will be unrighteous persons who will get a chance to learn and change. Or am I missing something?