Posts by Jofi

19

So where's the the food at the proper time?!

by nowwhat? in

so we are a couple weeks into this crisis with the meetings being cancelled.

and you would think the fds would have provided the sheep with helpful spiritual guidance in these times of need.

wtf do they have jw broadcasting for then?

Jofi_Wofo

Fun side note: the only time the Bible uses the term "spiritual food," it is used in reference to manna. I've heard the phrase "spiritual food at the proper time" uttered so often over the years, that at times, it was easy to forget that that's not what Jesus actually said.

19

So where's the the food at the proper time?!

by nowwhat? in

so we are a couple weeks into this crisis with the meetings being cancelled.

and you would think the fds would have provided the sheep with helpful spiritual guidance in these times of need.

wtf do they have jw broadcasting for then?

Jofi_Wofo

They're actually doing a very admirable job of continuing to dispense spiritual drool. Streaming is still available, elders are keeping close contact with congregants and plans for the memorial include splitting into smaller groups and holding more of them at staggered times. For example, a congregation of 60 publishers might have 3 separate memorials, running late into the night, instead of having the whole congregation together. Every congregation is handling it differently, but the letters coming out from the branch are heavily pushing out the narrative that this is PROOF that we're living in the last days. *rolls eyes* Nevermind the fact that this is one of the least dangerous viral pandemics in all of human history occuring during the absolutely least diseased time in all of human history.

Precautions = good.

Paranoia = bad.

Fear mongering = evil.

26

How was it possible that some members fall asleep or nod off during meetings?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

a while back, we had a saturday wedding reception for a brother and sister from our kingdom hall.

the reception ended at midnight.

most of us got home at around 1:00 a.m. our sunday public talk meeting started at 9:30 a.m. .

Jofi_Wofo

Shaming people for experiencing normal bodily responses to the inevitable exhaustion resulting from the extreme level of dedication required to be in the good graces of the organization. How very un-cult-like of them.

There is no shame in nodding off during a talk when you haven't had the chance to get proper rest. There is shame in demanding that people do the impossible. You can't will yourself into not being tired. That's absurd.

24

The Holy Spirit

by Acer21 in

if the holy spirit is an "active force", how can it be grieved (ephesians 4:30)?.

in other words, according to the jw's, one can make jehovah's "force" sorrowful?

this is an example of how the jw leaders have perverted the gospel in translation, and have put the jw's in a position in which they must perform intellectual gymnastics in order to maintain their false position.

Jofi_Wofo

Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found

Yes, when it is personified. Like wisdom being female in Proverbs 8.

One of the two major problems with the trinity is that in order to interpret any scripture as a trinitarian proof text, you will either have to make the Bible contradict itself, or use logic that is contradicted by other scripture. The other major problem is, of course, that no matter how you choose to phrase your definition of what the Trinity supposedly is, you will never find any scripture in the Bible that actually describes what you're talking about. It's absolute classic eisegesis. You have to first accept it to be true in order to conclude it to be true- circular reasoning.

Now, why are you even on this forum? Are you trying to convince us that JWs don't have the truth? We already know that. Next up, it's your turn to realize that your religion isn't true either. Don't worry, it's not as scary as you might think.

24

The Holy Spirit

by Acer21 in

if the holy spirit is an "active force", how can it be grieved (ephesians 4:30)?.

in other words, according to the jw's, one can make jehovah's "force" sorrowful?

this is an example of how the jw leaders have perverted the gospel in translation, and have put the jw's in a position in which they must perform intellectual gymnastics in order to maintain their false position.

Jofi_Wofo

Wow, caves. Thank you for sharing your experience. You've done a tremendous job recovering from such awful circumstances.

3

No more handwashing for JW's

by FedUpJW in

i was watching a program prompted by the covid-19 scare about youngsters in kindergarten and first grade being taught how to properly wash their hands to get rid of germs.

they were told that twenty seconds was needed, and that to time it they should sing the "happy birthday" song twice.. well i guess we all know that jw's will never be able to sing that song, so i guess they will have to teach their kids how to "take a stand for da troof" and tell their teachers they cannot was their hands anymore.. just think of all the 'periences they can cook up about caleb got the corona-virus and was oh so sick, but he took a stand against one of those pagan celebration inspired songs, and his teacher and several classmates all asked for watchtowers and studies.

hahahaha!.

Jofi_Wofo

JW's should reject hand washing for the same reasons they reject birthdays:

1) There is not a single example of any worshiper of Jehovah washing his or her own hands in the Bible. The only examples of hand washing in the Bible are from people who did not do what was right in Jehovah's eyes.

2) Jesus is the model whose footsteps we should follow closely. Jesus didn't wash his hands, so would it really be appropriate to wash our own?

3) Ritual hand washing has its origins in false religion, and while most people no longer associate it with religious practice, Jehovah does not forget its origins and we must do all things for his glory.

4) While the Bible does not outright forbid hand washing, it doesn't put hand washing in a positive light.

They should also reject it for the same reason why they reject political involvement:

1) The Bible tells us that it is through God's kingdom alone that all disease will be done away with. All other attempts at reducing diseases stand in opposition to Jehovah's will and exist to do nothing more than turn people away from worshiping him.

2) True Christians are to be no part of the world. Could we really claim that we were upholding Christian neutrality if we engage in the same cleanliness practice as our unbelieving neighbors and relatives?

3) When Jesus was offered the chance to wash his hands, he turned it down, because he knew that cleanliness belonged to Jehovah alone.

Lastly, they should reject hand washing to prevent disease because it reinforces the LIE of evolution!

1) For any new diseases to exist would require positive mutations, which only occur extremely rarely, and quickly disappear from the populations from which they originate.

2) Fossils of ancient microorganisms show little to no variation over the course of several centuries.

3) If COVID-19 evolved into a more virulent they why do other, less virulent viruses still exist?

4) Could a virus so irreducibly complex have come about by random chance?!

36

I'm tired of the org misquoting scholars to support there heretical NWT

by yogosans14 in

day after day jws are constantly fighting with me over the internet that the nwt is the most accurate translation and then they prove it by quoting scholars from the watchtower magazines.

they tell me i'm biased and there rendering of john 1:1 as "a god" is approved by scholars but i have researched there so called "supporters" and i have found they have tooken what they said out of context to twist the scriptures to there liking.. .

dr. julius r. mantey (who is even recognized by the watchtower as a greek scholar since they quote his book on page 1158 of their kingdom interlinear translation): calls the watchtower translation of john 1:1 "a grossly misleading translation.

Jofi_Wofo

RE: "taking in knowledge" vs "coming to know you"

I don't know anything about ancient Greek, so I can't comment on the accuracy of either translation. I can, however, make one observation: the older NWT was significantly more literal than the current one. It might be accurate, literally, to say "taking in knowledge," but the second one might do a better job of conveying the meaning in contemporary terms. This is one reason why it's always good to look at multiple translations when trying to understand meaning. It's also why no matter how many translations you look at, you STILL might not find the answer you're looking for. (I have quite the doozy of a thread coming up soon where I tackle one verse in particular in which each and every translation you look at says something so different that you often can't even tell that it's the same verse.)

36

I'm tired of the org misquoting scholars to support there heretical NWT

by yogosans14 in

day after day jws are constantly fighting with me over the internet that the nwt is the most accurate translation and then they prove it by quoting scholars from the watchtower magazines.

they tell me i'm biased and there rendering of john 1:1 as "a god" is approved by scholars but i have researched there so called "supporters" and i have found they have tooken what they said out of context to twist the scriptures to there liking.. .

dr. julius r. mantey (who is even recognized by the watchtower as a greek scholar since they quote his book on page 1158 of their kingdom interlinear translation): calls the watchtower translation of john 1:1 "a grossly misleading translation.

Jofi_Wofo

believe it's a terrible thing for a person to be deceived and go into eternity lost, forever lost because somebody deliberately misled him by distorting the Scripture!. . . hey should not allow themselves to be misled by the Jehovah's Witnesses and end up in hell." (Ron Rhodes "Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses" p.103-105)

Well, damn. Imagine being so hateful and petty that you think that people who disagree with your interpretation deserve to be sent to hell. Imagine believing that God is so stubborn and weak that he can't allow for sincere people to have misunderstandings or to inadvertently draw false conclusions on incorrect but seemingly authoritative information. Imagine believing that God deliberately created us with all of the cognitive biases that make it extremely hard to believe the right thing, and then will punish us for failing to believe the right thing.

To quickly address some of the comments in this thread:

- It's not polytheistic in the Biblical sense to consider Jesus a god, given all of the other people and entities that are also called gods. God, like many words in the Bible, has so many different meanings that the Bible, itself, even addresses this topic on a few occasions. (John 10:34-36, 1 Cor 8:5,6 - note in particular what it says about the FATHER being the one God, not the trinity nor Jesus).

- It's not contradictory to refer to Jesus as an angel (Michael) and as a god. First, see my reasoning above. Secondly, the Bible uses the word gods (Hebrew, "elohim") to refer to angels (compare Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7). Third, Jesus is both referred to as a god (again, John 1:1, depending on which scholar or theologian or dogmatic zealot you choose to believe is correct.) as well as described as having the voice of an archangel (1 Thes 4:16).

Whether Jesus and Michael are actually the same person is a topic I've yet to revisit, but I do remember some years ago finding significantly more Biblical evidence for it than even the WTB&TS publishes.

In any case, unless anyone has compelling evidence that the Bible actually is God's word (I don't see any such evidence anymore...), I'm inclined to believe that there is no correct interpretation of the "true" identity of Yahweh, El, Michael, Jesus or the holy spirit because not even the writers agreed on what they were trying to say.

24

The Holy Spirit

by Acer21 in

if the holy spirit is an "active force", how can it be grieved (ephesians 4:30)?.

in other words, according to the jw's, one can make jehovah's "force" sorrowful?

this is an example of how the jw leaders have perverted the gospel in translation, and have put the jw's in a position in which they must perform intellectual gymnastics in order to maintain their false position.

Jofi_Wofo

Ok...

And if the holy spirit is a person, how can it be poured out (Acts 10:45) and how could it have been INSIDE Stephen (Acts 7:55)?

Answer? Sometimes the Bible personifies objects (psalm 66:4) and abstract concepts (proverbs 8:1) and sometimes it objectifies people (psalm 16:8, Matthew 16:18). What's symbolic? What's literal? Sometimes the text gives us clues, but sometimes it doesn't and we just have to make our own best guesses.

We should be careful not to use a single proof text to try to make a scriptural point (you know, like those JWs like to do?), because context, literary style, challenges of translation and issues of personal interpretation will always cloud our abilities to fully grasp any Biblical concept. Oh, and may we not forget that all of that assumes to begin with that the Bible is actually a cohesive book with no conceptual contradictions and not just an anthology of loosely related myths, poems and historical fiction.

In other words, for much of what the Bible teaches, there is no correct or incorrect interpretation and it's entirely unproductive to say that someone who disagrees with your conclusion is perverting or deliberately deceiving.

There are plenty of problems with the organization, practices and teachings of JWs that make an actual real-world difference in people's lives. We can always disagree and debate doctrinal interpretation, but it is HIGHLY unproductive to say that every disagreement is further proof of malice on their part.That is, in fact, what had originally caused me to not take detractors and apostates seriously. If they call us liars and deceivers for not accepting the Trinity, how can I take them seriously when they claim we're liars and decievers for teaching that Jesus began reigning in 1914 (an actual verifiably wrong teaching that actually has a tremendously negative impact on the lives of millions).

Even on the Trinity front, there is more damning evidence of deception, such as not always adding Jehovah in New Testament quotations of Old Testament scriptures that have the tetragrammaton. I STILL think the Bible writers never intended to teach the divinity of Jesus, but that's an insanely dishonest thing to do.

30

Will you attend the Memorial 2020 ? - Covid-19 (Coronavirus)

by bats in the belfry in

... or rather listen to the advice on their jw news website:.

show love to others.

while we all know the importance of attending christian meetings and participating in the public ministry, if you are sick, it is best to stay home to avoid infecting others.

Jofi_Wofo

Yes, I will.

I'm on my way out, but not fully there yet. It hurts me to see my wife so disappointed, so I'm going to be there by her side until she gets used to the idea that I'm no longer a believer. Or, at least, until I just can't take it anymore.

I'm not afraid of COVID-19. Of course, I don't want to get sick, but unless it mutates and becomes more deadly, I think people are wildly overreacting.

By all means, take measures to protect children and the elderly in affected areas, but we shouldn't feel the need to completely dismantle our way of life for a virus that most people can lick in a few days with mild symptoms.

Jofi_Wofo

Posts by Jofi_Wofo