Jofi_Wofo

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Posts by Jofi_Wofo

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  7

  The rapture isn't what it is.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mentioned in my other thread that my mind wandered during the zoom meeting today.

  this was my second observation.

  note this exerpt on the rapture, from the july 15, 2015 wt and let's see what's wrong with it:.

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  Jofi_Wofo

  @the fall guy

  WOW. Somehow, I missed that, to. Derp.
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  7

  The rapture isn't what it is.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mentioned in my other thread that my mind wandered during the zoom meeting today.

  this was my second observation.

  note this exerpt on the rapture, from the july 15, 2015 wt and let's see what's wrong with it:.

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  Jofi_Wofo

  Somehow, I forgot to mention the most important, and most obvious, point.

  "they will see the son of man..."

  I mean, it says it right there. They will SEE the son of man. That was what prompted me to make this thread, but I somehow neglected to mention it!!!
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  7

  The rapture isn't what it is.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mentioned in my other thread that my mind wandered during the zoom meeting today.

  this was my second observation.

  note this exerpt on the rapture, from the july 15, 2015 wt and let's see what's wrong with it:.

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  Jofi_Wofo

  @Waton

  Good points.

  The current "generation" teaching is a complete mess. Jesus said "this generation" not "those two overlapping generations about 1,880 years from now".
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  7

  The rapture isn't what it is.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mentioned in my other thread that my mind wandered during the zoom meeting today.

  this was my second observation.

  note this exerpt on the rapture, from the july 15, 2015 wt and let's see what's wrong with it:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  I mentioned in my other thread that my mind wandered during the Zoom meeting today. This was my second observation. Note this exerpt on the rapture, from the July 15, 2015 WT and let's see what's wrong with it:

  "Does this mean that there will be a “rapture” of the anointed ones? Many in Christendom believe, according to this teaching, that Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth. Then, they expect that Jesus will visibly return to rule the earth. However, the Bible clearly shows that “the sign of the Son of man” will appear in heaven and that Jesus will come “on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt. 24:30) Both of these expressions imply invisibility."

  What... the... actual...?!

  Here's Matthew 24:30 in its entirety:

  "Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

  Nothing in this scripture implies invisibility. It is, in fact, impossible to appear invisible or appear invisibly because appearance requires visibility. Also, a sign is something perceived, almost always something seen. Lastly, "heaven" can mean either God's spiritual dwelling place OR the physical sky. The fact that the scripture mentions clouds implies that it's referring to the physical sky.

  Now, what the scripture actually means is not the point of my rant here. Go ahead and interpret this book of fantasy and fables any way you want! Just don't claim that your religion is "the truth" if you expect your followers to turn their brain off when you tell them what to believe (or else).

  The article continues:

  "Additionally, “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom.” So those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” (Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.) Therefore, while we do not use the term “rapture” here because of its wrong connotation, the remaining faithful anointed will be gathered together in an instant of time."

  So... they believe in absolutely every single aspect of the rapture doctrine, except for the absolute most minor thing you could possibly imagine- an entirely inconcequential detail- so they therefore refuse to use the word rapture.

  Wow!

  Well, add that one to the pile, eh?

  - We don't believe in a rapture! We just believe that before Armageddon, God's chosen ones will be instantly drawn from the earth to their eternal home in heaven!

  - We're not creationists, we just believe that evolution is false and that different forms of life were created directly by God!

  - We're not inspired, we're just guided by God's spirit!

  - We're not prophets, we're just God's channel of communication!

  - We're not a cult! We just instruct our followers to be wary of outsiders, refuse to listen to any negative reports about the organization, refrain from ever disagreeing with us- even silently in their hearts, discourage them from having any endeavors of comfort, enjoyment or self-betterment that would lessen their dedication to us, command them to shun friends and family who no longer believe, expect them to follow our every word even if it seems unreasonable by human standards, order them to obey our interpretations of scriptural commands to the point of death, and endlessly warn them that any act of disobedience leaves them liable to God's wrath at Armageddon.
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  3

  Observations loosely based on this week's WT.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i struggled mightily to stay awake for today's zoom meeting.

  at least we have it on saturday morning, so i don't have to dread it for the rest of my lovely weekend.. i suppose you could summarize today's lesson as such- "the annointed are annointed because they say they are annointed, and the annointed are special because god says they are special, and we know that god says what we say god says because we say god says that what we say god says is what god says.".

  lord helmet: everybody got that?!.

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  Jofi_Wofo

  I struggled mightily to stay awake for today's Zoom meeting. At least we have it on Saturday morning, so I don't have to dread it for the rest of my lovely weekend.

  I suppose you could summarize today's lesson as such- "The Annointed are Annointed because they say they are Annointed, and the Annointed are special because God says they are special, and we know that God says what we say God says because we say God says that what we say God says is what God says."

  Lord Helmet: Everybody got that?!

  So, of course, my mind wandered off and focused on doctrinal criticism. I made two observations that absolutely blew my mind. The second one is an entirely different topic, so I'll make a separate thread to address it.

  While just about every single word of Matthew 24 makes it clear that Jesus was absolutely not talking about the time that we are currently living in, there is one thing I had never considered before. Jesus warns in Matt 24:24: "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones."

  It's easy enough to note that absolutely no religious group in the history of mankind has been more prolific in disseminating false prophesies than WTBTS. False prophets, they are, but false Christs? Surely, none of them claim to be the Christ!

  However, in a "flash of light" I realized that since the term Christ means "annointed one," that scripture could equally mean that there would be a proliferation of false "annointed ones."

  Conclusion: We're probably not living in the last days, but if we are, JWs actually had the evidence all along, just not in the way that they think!!
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  26

  What SHOULD have woken you up ?

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for myself, there is an embarrassingly long list of things that really should really have woken me up, fully.

  it was a long process for me, as a mind controlled born in, things i simply did not agree with, or knew were downright wrong, that built and built, and, eventually i woke up, after 58 bloody years in !.

  but just mainly for fun, what should have woken you up ?.

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  Jofi_Wofo

  I came into the religion by first intensely studying the publications on my own, and only much later having a Bible study and going to meetings.

  I should have woken up as soon as I realized that the religion I knew on paper didn't exist in real life. But... I kept hoping that things would change, or I would change, and I would see it. Sadly, I never did, but I also never left. I quickly joined a foreign language congregation and the really close-nit and boisterous nature of that particular culture became my vision of what the religion was, and while it STILL was not what I imagined it was going to be, it filled quite a big hole in my life.

  I should have woken up when they told me not to masturbate, which should have been nobody's business.

  I should have woken up as soon as I realized that evolution was true, which was before I was even baptized.

  I should have woken up when an elder told me he didn't like my hair style, and that while there was nothing in the Bible against it, the opinions of the elders are important.

  I should have woken up when it hit me that I knew no more about the Bible 2 years (or 5, or 10, or 15...) after starting than I did 1 year after starting going to meetings.

  I should have woken up every time I got a scathing glance or a snide remark when I told others that I was going to college.

  I REALLY should have woken up when I decided not to hang my diploma on the wall because I didn't want to make my friends feel bad.

  I REALLY REALLY REALLY should have woken up every time I mentioned saving money or having a retirement account, only to have everyone around me act absolutely appalled that I wasn't doing the "spiritually mature" thing by deliberately living paycheck to paycheck and not having any plan for the future.

  I can go on and on and on, of course, but I'll add one last example: I should have woken up when they told me to treat other human beings as if they don't exist, just because those human beings just-so-happen to disagree with the self-proclaimed "faithful and discreet slave".
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  13

  Meet the greatest heavyweight champ of all time

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and no, it wasn't muhammad ali.. by most objective measures, the greatest heavyweight champ of all time was a guy called joe louis.. he reigned for nearly twelve consecutive years (june 1937 - march 1949) and made a record 25 successful consecutive title defences.

  since 1949, every heavyweight champ has tried to break or even match this record.

  all have failed.

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  Jofi_Wofo

  Even Usain Bolt benefits from contemporary track surface, foot wear, nutrition and athletic science.

  I don't know much about competitive sprinting, but I did read an article about how today's running tracks are constructed differently than those of several decades ago, leading to a speed advantage for today's athletes. After converting for that advantage, Usain Bolt's records are just about even with, and maybe even a bit slower than, records from early in the 20th century.
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  19

  So where's the the food at the proper time?!

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so we are a couple weeks into this crisis with the meetings being cancelled.

  and you would think the fds would have provided the sheep with helpful spiritual guidance in these times of need.

  wtf do they have jw broadcasting for then?

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  Jofi_Wofo

  Fun side note: the only time the Bible uses the term "spiritual food," it is used in reference to manna. I've heard the phrase "spiritual food at the proper time" uttered so often over the years, that at times, it was easy to forget that that's not what Jesus actually said.
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  19

  So where's the the food at the proper time?!

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so we are a couple weeks into this crisis with the meetings being cancelled.

  and you would think the fds would have provided the sheep with helpful spiritual guidance in these times of need.

  wtf do they have jw broadcasting for then?

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  Jofi_Wofo

  They're actually doing a very admirable job of continuing to dispense spiritual drool. Streaming is still available, elders are keeping close contact with congregants and plans for the memorial include splitting into smaller groups and holding more of them at staggered times. For example, a congregation of 60 publishers might have 3 separate memorials, running late into the night, instead of having the whole congregation together. Every congregation is handling it differently, but the letters coming out from the branch are heavily pushing out the narrative that this is PROOF that we're living in the last days. *rolls eyes* Nevermind the fact that this is one of the least dangerous viral pandemics in all of human history occuring during the absolutely least diseased time in all of human history.

  Precautions = good.

  Paranoia = bad.

  Fear mongering = evil.
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  26

  How was it possible that some members fall asleep or nod off during meetings?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a while back, we had a saturday wedding reception for a brother and sister from our kingdom hall.

  the reception ended at midnight.

  most of us got home at around 1:00 a.m. our sunday public talk meeting started at 9:30 a.m. .

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  Jofi_Wofo

  Shaming people for experiencing normal bodily responses to the inevitable exhaustion resulting from the extreme level of dedication required to be in the good graces of the organization. How very un-cult-like of them.

  There is no shame in nodding off during a talk when you haven't had the chance to get proper rest. There is shame in demanding that people do the impossible. You can't will yourself into not being tired. That's absurd.