Jofi_Wofo

Joined

• started 18 topics
• posted 156 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Jofi_Wofo

• 
  24

  How long did it take before you realized that you missed the obvious?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  remember when the public speaker in the kingdom hall or convention related the ten plagues and the parting of the red sea?.

  the finale when jehovah closes the red sea and swallows pharaoh's entire army of egyptian men.. when i was a little kid about 5 years old and listened to this story, i would think---wow jehovah is strong.

  when i started school and started learning compassion as early as the first grade i started wondering?????.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  Great points.

  Despite being a naturally skeptical person, I allowed myself to be convinced that I didn't need to know anything more than, nor question anything about, the information that God had (supposedly) already given us. All I can now see in Watchtower and biblical literalist doctrine is contradiction, discrepancy, omission, dishonesty and absurdity.

  How did we miss it? Human cognition wasn't programmed optimally to find truth. It was programmed optimally to allow us to survive the context in which it evolved. Obedience to tribal authority and adherence to group loyalty were always more important than whether or not any of the myths used to foster those ties had any truth to them.

  The second that we stop thinking of it as "our" doctrine and start thinking of it as "their" doctrine is the second that we no longer understand how anybody could ever believe it.
• 
  18

  Sam Heard in April JW cult broadcasting says are you doing all you can?

  by mickbobcat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so sam rolex had this months talk on jw cult broadcasting.

  my question to sam rolex is why not sell your rolex and give it to the cult?

  how about muppet lett, why not sell your rental property in ga and give it to the cult?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  Watchtower: Jehovah never expects you to give more than you can!

  Also Watchtower: No matter what you are doing for Jehovah, you can always do more!

  ----

  If you want a depressing anecdote to illustrate the depressing point, here's a depressing anecdote about depression.

  Like anyone else in life, I've had my ups and downs, and like many others I've experienced temporary, but prolonged, periods of depression. I shit you not when I tell you that I was rebuked by at least three different elders (might have been more, I'd have to unlock my mental file cabinet to get a fuller number) not for sinning, disobeying a Watchtower rule, nor even for showing up late or accidentally being rude. I got counseled FOR BEING DEPRESSED.

  1) One elder told me that Jehovah's people are a happy people snd that if I'm not happy, I must be doing something wrong with my spiritual routine.

  2) Another elder took me aside and told me that I looked miserable and that I needed to cut it out because it makes the religion look bad to unbelievers. We need to give them the impression that being a JW is pure joy, even if we are hurting badly in the inside.

  3) One elder interrogated me on why I didn't preach during a CO visit. I told him that I was so depressed that it was making me physically ill and that I spent almost the entire week sleeping day and night and was still tired. This elder said 'I'm sorry to hear that, thanks for sharing, but here's some advice for you. You really need to figure out how to push through whatever it is that you're going through so that you can continue to reach out for more responsibility.'
• 
  240

  Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  anyone following the derek chauvin trial?.

  if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.

  there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  The raw video of George Flloyd is one of the most heart wrenching things I've ever seen and I truly believe that Derek Chauvin is a warped individual who deserves to be punished.

  He might be liable for the manslaughter and maybe even the third degree murder charge, though even that might be tough. To make the murder conviction stick, you have to prove that there even was a murder to begin with, and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. The facts surrounding the case paint a more murky picture than most of us originally thought.

  George Floyd had was found to have no physical signs of asphyxiation. Even the close-up video, awful as it is to watch, confirms that he WAS breathing, and other videos show that he was already shouting "I can't breathe" BEFORE he was even taken to the ground. He was also found to have a high enough dose of fentanyl in his system to kill not just one, but a handful of people. It's almost certain that he was going to die even if he had not gotten into a confrontation with police, and it was 100% his fault that he got into the confrontation to begin with.

  A better argument can be made that Chauvin's abusive and unauthorized restraint tactic exacerbated Floyd's demise and that it should have been obvious that he was in a state of medical emergency and needed to be handled with care. That's my take on this situation. Derek Chauvin should be in prison for a very long time but the justice system needs to handle this situation professionally. Not politically nor emotionally. "SCREW THE FACTS, WE WANT BLOOD!!! " is not the kind if system that we want.
• 
  14

  Parking Attendant Training Videos

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know that all of the assembly/convention attendant training videos have been leaked publicly, but has anyone gotten a hold of the parking training videos?.

  i saw these about a year and a half ago, when i was still pimo.

  as bizarre and manipulative as the attendant video series is, the parking videos put them to shame.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  @Atlantis Thanks for the vid! I speak spanish, so that video will do the trick.

  @desirousofchange @ffghost

  Very little is said of the actual work involved with parking duty. We're given a little peek, in the form of the dramatization, of what goes into organizing parking arrangements and what could go wrong. More importantly, it stresses what a privilege and honor it is to serve Jehovah in such an outstanding way. Basically, a paint by numbers JW recruitment video where a mundane and unskilled task is given extreme importance as a way of drumming up excitement over nothing.
• 
  14

  Parking Attendant Training Videos

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know that all of the assembly/convention attendant training videos have been leaked publicly, but has anyone gotten a hold of the parking training videos?.

  i saw these about a year and a half ago, when i was still pimo.

  as bizarre and manipulative as the attendant video series is, the parking videos put them to shame.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  I know that all of the assembly/convention attendant training videos have been leaked publicly, but has anyone gotten a hold of the parking training videos?

  I saw these about a year and a half ago, when I was still PIMO. As bizarre and manipulative as the attendant video series is, the parking videos put them to shame. It's nothing more than recruitment propoganda, presenting the parking department as a cult-within-a-cult. The parking brothers supposedly form a special bond with one another that lasts a lifetime.
• 
  20

  False memorial partakers deserve to die???

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every memorial, much emphasis is placed on making sure that only the (self-proclaimed) anointed partake in the emblems.

  this year, however, the speaker at my wife's congregation presented it as an even more serious matter.

  he likened it to individuals in ancient israel who sought position of the priesthood despite never been appointed by jehovah.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  @vienne Thanks for confirming. Do you (or anyone here) happen to know when the last time any change to the outline was made?

  And now I'm actually more curious and will try to see if I can find a copy online to look at.
• 
  20

  False memorial partakers deserve to die???

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every memorial, much emphasis is placed on making sure that only the (self-proclaimed) anointed partake in the emblems.

  this year, however, the speaker at my wife's congregation presented it as an even more serious matter.

  he likened it to individuals in ancient israel who sought position of the priesthood despite never been appointed by jehovah.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  Thank you both. I guess this is more of an example of one speaker getting carried away.

  Now I'm wondering if it was a point he made up all on his own, or if there was some publication on WOL that might have laid out the same argument.

  It took me a while to figure out just why this particular point was so jarring to listen to, given how frequently WT uses biblical executions as a warning for why we should do X and never do Y. I'm now certain that what rattled me a little bit was the context. The memorial talk is usually relatively tame compared to other meetings- it seems to serve as a meet and greet and open house for non-JWs to take a peek at what goes on inside a Kingdom Hall. The least palatable parts of the religion, and religion in general, are usually either hidden or severely watered down. In this case, the speaker went full on talking as if it was the midweek meeting without thinking twice about how crazy some of this stuff sounds to people who aren't already all in. 'Don't take a bite of the cracker because god killed scores of people for doing something similar' is a pretty hot take for a guy who's trying to introduce the religion to unbelievers.
• 
  20

  False memorial partakers deserve to die???

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every memorial, much emphasis is placed on making sure that only the (self-proclaimed) anointed partake in the emblems.

  this year, however, the speaker at my wife's congregation presented it as an even more serious matter.

  he likened it to individuals in ancient israel who sought position of the priesthood despite never been appointed by jehovah.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  Every memorial, much emphasis is placed on making sure that only the (self-proclaimed) anointed partake in the emblems. This year, however, the speaker at my wife's congregation presented it as an even more serious matter. He likened it to individuals in ancient Israel who sought position of the priesthood despite never been appointed by Jehovah. Such people were executed for their disrespect in flouting Jehovah's arrangement, and the speaker claimed that that demonstrates just how seriously Jehovah feels about false emblem partakers.

  To my recollection, I have never heard any speaker threatening (at least by way of analogy) false partakers with death. I'm wondering if anyone here might have caught the memorial talk and heard something similar. I know that Watchtower tightly controls what is said at memorials with their outlines and I also wonder if there was a change in the outline or a letter that the elders might have been given to the effect that this point needed to be brought out.

  If so, it doesn't bode well for Watchtower. It's blatant poisoning the well + gaslighting + damage control over all the controversy about the increase in memorial partakers, despite for many years claiming that a decrease in partakers was (somehow...) evidence that they actually interpreted a Bible doctrine correctly for once.

  Are they now trying to scare people into not partaking, or was this just one speaker adding his own spin?
• 
  16

  Cain and Abel...Who recorded this tragic event?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  3 the day came when cain brought a gift of the fruit of the ground to the lord.

  4 but abel brought a gift of the first-born of his flocks and of the fat parts.

  the lord showed favor to abel and his gift.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  So Cain kills Abel.

  Why didn't God stop it from happening? Well, according to JW theodicy, God supposedly had decided to not intervene with human affairs, in order to prove the point that humans can not rule over themselves. Instead, God does intervene with human affairs by preventing the remaining human beings on earth from bringing Cain to justice for his actions. He then sent Cain to a different location where Cain could go ahead and create a whole new family/nation/race of people that will follow in the footsteps of a vindictive and cowardly murderer.
  

  Let's review: God lets an innocent person die because he does not want to intervene. Then, God intervenes to save the life of a murderer.
• 
  4

  Challenging the teacher.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine the case where a student disagrees with his teacher's method, and believes that he knows a better way.

  the teacher realizes that if he kicks the student out of the classroom, the other students may begin to wonder if the teacher was hiding something.

  to settle the matter once and for all, the teacher gives the student a chance to prove himself.. wisely, the teacher takes a moment to lay down the parameters for the challenge.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jofi_Wofo

  Imagine the case where a student disagrees with his teacher's method, and believes that he knows a better way. The teacher realizes that if he kicks the student out of the classroom, the other students may begin to wonder if the teacher was hiding something. To settle the matter once and for all, the teacher gives the student a chance to prove himself.

  Wisely, the teacher takes a moment to lay down the parameters for the challenge. He takes away the textbooks and calculators, removes all the desks and chairs from the classroom, turns off the climate control, pulls down the window curtains and turns off the lights.

  The teacher then makes an announcement. This challenge will only take place during lunch period, but no one will be allowed to eat. When the challenge is over, the teacher, alone, will be the one to judge the winner. He adds the stipulation that if even one student agrees with the teacher in the end, that will be considered evidence enough that the teacher is right and all other students will be kicked out of the classroom forever. Further, the teacher makes a pronouncement right then and there that no matter how the student performs, the teacher will intervene at the very last minute of the period and sabatage all of the student's efforts.

  The teacher then steps aside and lets the student begin. Immediately, however, the teacher doesn't like what he sees so he interupts over and over again, often forcing the student to start again from the beginning.

  Meanwhile, the teacher separates the other students into several different groups scattered throughout the classroom, then puts up drapes to prevent the groups from easily intermingling. Many students can't even hear the student at the front of the room, and in their state of confusion, don't understand what's happening. The rest either don't know who is talking, what he is saying, or are so uncomfortable, frightened and hungry that they have lost the will to even try.

  In the midst of all this chaos, the teacher roams around the room, whispering some good news into the ears of some, but not all, of the student's ears. He tells them that all hope is not lost! Any student who sides with the teacher will automatically be given an A for the course, while all students who don't side with with the teacher will automatically be given an F for the course. He then hands them earplugs and tells them that the best way to make it to the end is to stop up their ears so as to not be able to listen to the student at the front the class and to stay as far away as possible form any other student who does not have their ears stopped up.

  Was that not a wise and loving thing for the teacher to do? Let us now consider what this illustration teaches us about suffering, death and the vindication of God's name.